





           1           SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

           2            IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF SANTA BARBARA

           3           SANTA MARIA BRANCH; COOK STREET DIVISION

           4   DEPARTMENT SM-2       HON. RODNEY S. MELVILLE, JUDGE

           5

           6

           7   THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF   )

           8   CALIFORNIA,                  )

           9                 Plaintiff,      )

          10            -vs-                 )     No. 1133603

          11   MICHAEL JOE JACKSON,          )

          12                Defendant.      )

          13

          14

          15

          16           REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

          17

          18                   TUESDAY, MARCH 2, 2005

          19

          20                        8:30 A.M.

          21

          22                 (PAGES 298 THROUGH 336)

          23

          24

          25

          26

          27   REPORTED   MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR, CSR #3304

          28   BY:        Official Court Reporter


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           1   APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:

           2

           3
               For Plaintiff:    THOMAS W. SNEDDON, JR.,
           4                       District Attorney
                                         -and-
           5                     RONALD J. ZONEN,
                                   Sr. Deputy District Attorney
           6                             -and-
                                 GORDON AUCHINCLOSS,
           7                       Sr. Deputy District Attorney
                                         -and-
           8                     GERALD McC. FRANKLIN,
                                   Sr. Deputy District Attorney
           9                     1112 Santa Barbara Street
                                 Santa Barbara, California 93101
          10

          11

          12

          13   For Defendant:    COLLINS, MESEREAU, REDDOCK & YU
                                 BY:  THOMAS A. MESEREAU, JR., ESQ.
          14                                -and-
                                       SUSAN C. YU, ESQ.
          15                     1875 Century Park East, Suite 700
                                 Los Angeles, California 90067
          16
                                            -and-
          17
                                 SANGER & SWYSEN
          18                     BY:   ROBERT M. SANGER, ESQ.
                                 233 East Carrillo Street, Suite C
          19                     Santa Barbara, California 93101

          20                                -and-

          21                     OXMAN and JAROSCAK
                                 BY:  R. BRIAN OXMAN, ESQ.
          22                     14126 East Rosecrans Boulevard
                                 Santa Fe Springs, California 90670
          23

          24

          25

          26

          27

          28


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           1
                                I   N   D   E   X
           2

           3
               Note:
           4           Mr. Sneddon is listed as "SN" on index.
                       Mr. Zonen is listed as "Z" on index.
           5           Mr. Auchincloss is listed as "A" on index.
                       Mr. Franklin is listed as "F" on index.
           6           Mr. Mesereau is listed as "M" on index.
                       Ms. Yu is listed as "Y" on index.
           7           Mr. Sanger is listed as "SA" on index.
                       Mr. Oxman is listed as "O" on index.
           8

           9

          10   PLAINTIFF'S
               WITNESSES                 DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS
          11

          12   KITE, Ann Marie           306-A
                                         (cont'd)
          13

          14

          15

          16

          17

          18

          19

          20

          21

          22

          23

          24

          25

          26

          27

          28


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           1                E   X   H   I   B   I   T   S

           2

           3                                                 FOR    IN
               PLAINTIFF'S NO.        DESCRIPTION            I.D.  EVID.
           4

           5       403      February 2003 e-mails - page 17,
                            Marc Schaffel's Fire Brewing
           6                file from Kite to Konitzer       331

           7

           8

           9

          10

          11

          12

          13

          14

          15

          16

          17

          18

          19

          20

          21

          22

          23

          24

          25

          26

          27

          28


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           1                      Santa Maria, California

           2                     Wednesday, March 2, 2005

           3                             8:30 a.m.

           4

           5           THE COURT:  Good morning.

           6           COUNSEL AT COUNSEL TABLE:  (In unison)

           7   Good morning, Your Honor.  Good morning, Your Honor.

           8           THE JURY:  (In unison) Good morning.

           9           THE COURT:  Sorry we kept you waiting a short

          10   time this morning.  This is going to occur -- is the

          11   mike -- can you hear me?  Is that better?

          12           A VOICE:  Can't hear you.

          13           THE COURT:  Should be on now.  They can't

          14   hear.  What I'm going to do --

          15           Would the witness step down for a moment,

          16   please?

          17           Can you hear me now?

          18           THE JURY:  (In unison)  Yes.

          19           THE COURT:  I sound like one of those

          20   commercials for the cell phone; "Can you hear me

          21   now?"

          22           I want to talk to you a little bit about the

          23   reason we were late this morning.  We were -- we

          24   really weren't late.  The attorneys and I were

          25   working on a legal problem that arose at the end of

          26   the day yesterday.

          27           And that's the nature of a lawsuit.  It's a

          28   work in progress.  And it's not all determined


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           1   before you get here, and then it just happens.  It

           2   happens in front of you.  And so there's a couple of

           3   things that I want to tell you.  And I think perhaps

           4   the best thing to do is to talk to you about the

           5   co-conspirator statements.  And the best way to talk

           6   to you about that is to read the law to you, as you

           7   will hear again at the end of the case.

           8           Evidence of a statement made by one alleged

           9   conspirator other than at this trial shall not be

          10   considered by you as against another alleged

          11   conspirator unless you determine, by a preponderance

          12   of the evidence; one, that from other independent

          13   evidence that at the time the statement was made, a

          14   conspiracy to commit a crime existed.

          15           Two, that the statement was made while the

          16   person making the statement was participating in the

          17   conspiracy, and that the person against whom it was

          18   offered was participating in the conspiracy before

          19   and during that time.

          20           And three, that the statement was made in

          21   furtherance of the objective of the conspiracy.  The

          22   word "statement" as used in this instruction

          23   includes any oral or written, verbal expression or

          24   nonverbal conduct that a person -- intended by that

          25   person as a substitute for an oral, written, verbal

          26   expression.

          27           So what is going to happen in this trial is

          28   that certain statements are going to come in.  And


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           1   you will later not be able to consider those

           2   statements unless you determine, in accordance with

           3   this instruction, that there was a conspiracy and

           4   that those statements were in the furtherance of an

           5   objective of the conspiracy.  But the law allows the

           6   parties to present statements before and after they

           7   think the conspiracy is proved or disproved.  So it

           8   would be very difficult to handle the case in

           9   another way.  So you're going to hear statements and

          10   later determine your use, as a jury, of those

          11   statements in accordance with the law.

          12           So I'm going to conditionally admit some

          13   statements this morning and the condition is that

          14   you will later determine how you're going to use

          15   those statements.

          16           Along those same lines, during the course of

          17   the trial, the attorneys make objections.  I rule on

          18   those objections, and I'm following rules of

          19   evidence.

          20           Quite often it's not necessary that you know

          21   why I make a ruling.  If I sustain an objection, you

          22   just -- you reject the question.  You don't consider

          23   the answer, if part of it came in or all of it.  If

          24   I overrule an objection, that doesn't mean that I'm

          25   favoring that evidence.  All I'm saying is that side

          26   has the right to give you that evidence for you to

          27   consider, and it has nothing to do with my feelings

          28   about it.  Okay?


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           1           In that regard, yesterday, the witness, who

           2   just stepped down, her name --

           3           MR. SNEDDON:  Miss Gabriel.

           4           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Gabriel Kite.

           5           THE COURT:  Ms. Kite, Miss Gabriel, said --

           6   the question was asked, "And did you go to work for

           7   Michael Jackson?"  And the answer was, "Yes, I did."

           8           Earlier, the question had been asked, "At

           9   some time did Mr. LeGrand ask to employ you and come

          10   to work for Michael Jackson?"  And there was an

          11   objection as hearsay.

          12           Well, I overruled that objection, and the

          13   reason I did is that the -- at that point in the

          14   proceeding, it is my opinion that wasn't offered for

          15   the truth of the matter; i.e., that she worked for

          16   Michael Jackson.  It was offered only to show you

          17   why she came to work and what she thought she was

          18   doing.  So it wasn't the truth of the matter, that

          19   she worked for Mr. Jackson.  That, in fact, you will

          20   have to determine whether or not she did.  I don't

          21   know the answer to that.  That will be your

          22   decision.  But each side will present evidence on

          23   that.

          24           So as to yesterday, the question, "At some

          25   time did Mr. LeGrand ask to employ you to come to

          26   work for Michael Jackson?"  She said, "Yes, he did."

          27   The instruction I'm giving you is that's to be

          28   considered only -- at this point only to show what


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           1   she thought she was doing.  Not for the truth of the

           2   matter that she was working for Michael Jackson.

           3   Okay?

           4           Very complicated.  But I'll continue to

           5   instruct you, as needed, to help you with this.

           6   Very difficult area of dealing with statements and

           7   conspiracies.  Okay?

           8           You may resume the witness stand.

           9           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Thank you, Your Honor.

          10           THE COURT:  When you take the witness stand,

          11   I'll remind you that you are still under oath.

          12

          13                      ANN MARIE KITE

          14            Having been previously sworn, resumed the

          15   stand and testified further as follows:

          16

          17                   DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued)

          18  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:

          19       Q.  Good morning, Ms. Kite.

          20       A.  Good morning.

          21       Q.  Yesterday, when we left off, we were talking

          22   a little bit about your history, the chronology of

          23   events in your employment.  And let me revisit the

          24   question of who you believed you were working for.

          25           First of all, who was it that actually hired

          26   you for this work that you did for Michael Jackson?

          27       A.  Who asked me to come to work for Michael

          28   Jackson?


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           1       Q.  Yes.

           2       A.  David LeGrand.

           3       Q.  Okay.  And when did you -- was there a

           4   period of time in which you discussed with Mr.

           5   LeGrand working for Michael Jackson?

           6       A.  Yes --

           7       Q.  Prior to your employment, actual employment?

           8       A.  Yes, there was.

           9       Q.  And when was that -- when did that

          10   discussion begin?

          11       A.  About the 27th of January.

          12       Q.  Okay.  Were there further discussions --

          13   when were you actually hired?

          14       A.  On the 9th of February, Mr. LeGrand sent me

          15   an e-mail along with other people that were working

          16   on the MJJ working group that said, "Welcome to the

          17   team."

          18       Q.  Okay.  And between that period of time when

          19   you began discussions with Mr. LeGrand and the time

          20   that you actually became a member of the team, did

          21   you continue to have discussions with Mr. LeGrand

          22   about the issues involved in being a PR person for

          23   Michael Jackson?

          24       A.  Yes, I did.

          25       Q.  Were you paid for your employment?

          26       A.  Yes, I was.

          27       Q.  How much?

          28       A.  $10,000.


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           1       Q.  Was that payment in advance or arrears of

           2   your employment?

           3       A.  Well, it was supposed to be $20,000 for the

           4   month.  When I signed the contract on the 14th of

           5   February, David gave me a $10,000 check, so that was

           6   an advance.

           7       Q.  So you began your work on the 9th?

           8       A.  Yes.

           9       Q.  You signed your contract on the 14th?

          10       A.  Yes.

          11       Q.  What time did you sign that contract?

          12       A.  Late in the afternoon.  It was between three

          13   and four o'clock.

          14       Q.  And where did that take place, the signing?

          15       A.  At Mr. LeGrand's law office.

          16       Q.  And where is that?

          17       A.  In Las Vegas.

          18       Q.  Okay.  As far as your background as a public

          19   relations person, what do you consider to be your

          20   greatest assets in that field?

          21       A.  I believe it's crisis management.  Being

          22   able to see a problem, and determine what needs --

          23   steps can be taken to correct it.

          24       Q.  Are there any contacts or other qualities

          25   that you possess that enable you to conduct that

          26   type of work?

          27           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; vague.

          28           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Well, I can be a little


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           1   more specific.

           2       Q.  What is it that enables you to conduct

           3   crisis management in terms of any abilities, any --

           4   well, let me just leave it open.  Let me leave it

           5   open-ended.  What do you do -- how do you go about

           6   conducting crisis management work?

           7       A.  Well, other than being neurotic, which comes

           8   in very handy, I think I have a very good grasp of

           9   the media as a whole.  Internet, television, radio,

          10   newspaper.  And an innate ability to be able to size

          11   up the client or the product that I'm representing,

          12   find out where their assets are, the best aspects

          13   that they have to represent themselves to the

          14   public, or the product, and to be able to move them

          15   forward from there.

          16           But regardless of if it's a crisis

          17   management client or if it's just a client that

          18   you're trying to do public relations for, I think

          19   probably my greatest asset is being able to see the

          20   total product or the total person, and to explore

          21   other avenues of being able to bring them to

          22   fruition.

          23       Q.  Do you have a philosophy about how to

          24   approach crisis management?

          25       A.  Absolutely.

          26       Q.  What is that?

          27       A.  Very proactive.

          28       Q.  And what do you mean by "proactive"?


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           1       A.  Being out in front of the media, having a

           2   crisis plan just in case something happens.  A lot

           3   of times when people begin to promote themselves or

           4   to promote a product, they like to think of the

           5   good -- the upside, the good things that can come

           6   out of promoting themselves or their product, and

           7   they don't like to analyze the bad things that might

           8   happen.

           9           I have an ability to be able to do both

          10   before I start with the client, so that they can be

          11   comfortable and not panic if something happens.  I

          12   want them to know that I've been able to thoroughly

          13   research both the ups and downs of everything they

          14   do and that, you know, I can cover them on either

          15   side.

          16       Q.  Is it important to confront the bad things?

          17       A.  Absolutely.

          18       Q.  Why do you believe that?

          19       A.  Because if you don't confront it, somebody

          20   else is going to confront it for you, and then

          21   you're going to be caught in a downward spiral.

          22       Q.  All right.  When you were first in

          23   discussions with Mr. LeGrand in late January, what

          24   did you perceive to be Michael Jackson's status

          25   issues, what have you, regarding public relations?

          26           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; foundation.

          27           THE COURT:  Sustained.

          28       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  When you began


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           1   discussions with Mr. LeGrand concerning working with

           2   Michael Jackson or working on his behalf, did you do

           3   some research into news media, Mr. Jackson's

           4   background, anything of that nature, to better

           5   understand the public relations issues involving Mr.

           6   Jackson?

           7       A.  Yes.

           8       Q.  And based on that research, were you able to

           9   form an opinion as to what PR issues needed to be

          10   addressed or should be addressed if you were called

          11   to become an employee?

          12       A.  Yes, I was.

          13           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; foundation.

          14           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Your Honor, she is

          15   testifying in some capacity as an expert witness in

          16   this area.

          17           THE COURT:  The objection is overruled.

          18           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  All right.

          19           THE WITNESS:  Yes, I was.

          20       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  All right.  How did you

          21   evaluate Mr. Jackson from a PR point of view at that

          22   point, late in January?

          23       A.  What was my evaluation and recommendation,

          24   is that the question?

          25       Q.  Yes.

          26       A.  I believed that there was too much negative

          27   exposure on Mr. Jackson's actions, and not enough

          28   exposure on his strength as a musician.  And so I


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           1   told Mr. LeGrand that I felt immediately the focus

           2   needed to be taken off of him as a person, as a man,

           3   and the things that the public may or may not like

           4   about him, and put back on all of the years of

           5   wonderful music that he had given to the public.

           6       Q.  Okay.  And sometime between the time when

           7   you were recruited and the time that you actually

           8   became an employee, did something occur that changed

           9   your perspective as to what the necessary issues

          10   were dealing with PR?

          11       A.  Yes.

          12           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection, Your Honor.  May I

          13   402 the witness on her credentials, the basis for

          14   her opinion?

          15           THE COURT:  No.

          16           Go ahead.

          17           THE WITNESS:  Can you repeat the question?

          18       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  The question was,

          19   between late January and the time that you were

          20   actually hired, I believe you said it was the 9th of

          21   February, did something happen that changed your

          22   perception of Mr. Jackson from a public relations

          23   standpoint?

          24       A.  Yes.

          25       Q.  What was that?

          26       A.  The Martin Bashir documentary.

          27       Q.  All right.  What -- how did that -- the

          28   Martin Bashir documentary present itself as an issue


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           1   for you, from a public relations standpoint?

           2       A.  As an absolute disaster.

           3       Q.  Why do you say that?

           4       A.  I felt that the documentary was put together

           5   in a way that portrayed Mr. Jackson in an extremely

           6   negative light.

           7       Q.  Were there particular issues with that

           8   documentary that you believed presented problems for

           9   Mr. Jackson from a PR point of view?

          10       A.  Yes, there were.

          11           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.  Foundation;

          12   relevance; 352.

          13           THE COURT:  Overruled.

          14           You may answer.

          15       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  What were those issues?

          16       A.  I believed that Mr. Jackson was portrayed in

          17   a very negative light in his actions as far as the

          18   shopping spree, as far as climbing the tree, as far

          19   as statements made portraying himself as Peter Pan,

          20   and the interaction that he had with the person that

          21   was on the video.

          22       Q.  The young boy?

          23       A.  Yes.

          24       Q.  And how did -- did you monitor the

          25   international media during this period of time?

          26       A.  Yes, I did.

          27       Q.  Is that part of your job?

          28       A.  Yes, it is.


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           1       Q.  And what was the reaction of the

           2   international media at this point?

           3       A.  Well, there was an immediate reaction, and

           4   they jumped on exactly what I believed that they

           5   would, which was to --

           6           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; nonresponsive.

           7           THE COURT:  The question was, "What was the

           8   reaction."  And I'll sustain the objection.

           9           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  All right.  I'll reask the

          10   question.

          11       Q.  In terms of the reaction of the

          12   international media, how did you evaluate in your

          13   role as a public relations person?

          14       A.  That it was extremely negative.

          15       Q.  All right.  Was there any positive media?

          16       A.  Not to my knowledge.

          17       Q.  Okay.  You have -- have you ever been asked

          18   to characterize or measure this crisis on a scale of

          19   1 to 10?

          20       A.  Yes, I have.

          21       Q.  And how did you characterize it?

          22       A.  A 25 --

          23           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; foundation.

          24           THE COURT:  Overruled.

          25           THE WITNESS:  A 25.

          26       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  So you perceived this

          27   to be a big problem?

          28       A.  Absolutely.


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           1       Q.  Did you formulate a plan to deal with this

           2   problem?

           3       A.  Yes, I did.

           4       Q.  Did you work with other people in

           5   formulating this plan?

           6       A.  Somewhat, yes.

           7       Q.  Okay.  Were they other members of the team?

           8       A.  Yes.

           9       Q.  Okay.  Specifically, who?

          10       A.  Specifically Melanie Riley from Bell Yard.

          11       Q.  And tell me a little bit more about Bell

          12   Yard, if you would.

          13       A.  Bell Yard is a crisis management public

          14   relations firm in the United Kingdom.

          15       Q.  Are they a small firm, large firm, medium?

          16       A.  I don't know.

          17       Q.  And was there just Melanie that you dealt

          18   with from Bell Yard, or other people as well?

          19       A.  I believe Richard was the other gentleman

          20   that I dealt with from Bell Yard.

          21       Q.  Do you know their last names?

          22       A.  Melanie is Riley.  And I don't remember

          23   Richard's last name.

          24       Q.  Okay.  So in the beginning, when you were

          25   formulating this plan, what was your -- what was

          26   your idea, what was your goal?

          27       A.  Well, my goal was to immediately speak with

          28   someone and assess all of the negative impacts from


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           1   the Bashir documentary, addressing each one.

           2   Because my fear was that while one media source

           3   might pick up on one thing, another media source

           4   would pick up on another thing, so there would be

           5   multiple angles coming at us.

           6           And I felt and believed that unless we had a

           7   clear plan of attack to be able to address each one

           8   of these issues, we were not going to be as

           9   proactive on Mr. Jackson's behalf as we needed to

          10   be.

          11       Q.  Were there any other goals other than

          12   attacking the current media problem?

          13       A.  Yes.  My goal was to begin an immediate

          14   rehabilitation on his image.

          15       Q.  So how did you plan to go about these goals?

          16       A.  Well, I needed to address, first of all, the

          17   negative items that were coming out in the press.

          18   And then once that was taken care of, I wanted to

          19   begin to do the rehabilitation on his image.

          20       Q.  So in terms of the nuts and bolts of public

          21   relations, how do you go about doing that?

          22       A.  How would I personally go about doing that?

          23       Q.  Yes.

          24       A.  I would write out a list of questions,

          25   decide how people wanted to respond or to react.  I

          26   would look at what was potentially coming up in the

          27   media.  Because you have to understand, with the

          28   media, they don't call you up politely and say,


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           1   "We're going to write a story about your client, and

           2   we'd love to give you an opportunity to respond and

           3   please tell us your side."  They send you a very

           4   short e-mail or give you a call and say, "Look, this

           5   is what we're printing about your client, and I'm on

           6   a deadline, so if you don't get back to me, too

           7   bad."  I mean, that's pretty much what it was.

           8           And so I believed that we needed to

           9   immediately sit down and assess all of the negative

          10   things that could have come out of this documentary

          11   for Mr. Jackson, and decide how we wanted to respond

          12   so that we didn't get stuck in a downward spiral of

          13   people printing things because they didn't get a

          14   response quickly enough.

          15       Q.  Did Martin Bashir figure in in any way to

          16   your plan of attack?

          17       A.  Yes.

          18       Q.  In what way?

          19       A.  I wanted to look at the credibility of the

          20   other documentaries that he had done.

          21       Q.  Was Bell Yard in agreement with that?

          22       A.  Yes, they were.

          23       Q.  Generally speaking, was Bell Yard's approach

          24   to the problem of Mr. Jackson's PR consistent with

          25   your own?

          26       A.  Yes, it was.

          27       Q.  Did you participate in conference calls with

          28   Bell Yard with any of the members of the team?


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           1       A.  Yes, I did.

           2       Q.  Which members?

           3       A.  I believe one or two times Mr. Geragos and

           4   Mr. Konitzer were on the calls.  The other times it

           5   was mostly the team from the UK; Andrew Hochhauser,

           6   Hamish Porter, Peter and Janie Castle.

           7       Q.  Okay.

           8       A.  John Genga, too, also was on those phone

           9   calls.  And then David LeGrand.

          10       Q.  What was Mr. Castle's and Genga's duties?

          11   Who were they?

          12       A.  They were other attorneys.  I don't know

          13   specifically what their duties were, other than I

          14   believe they were involved in the litigation that

          15   was -- that Mr. Jackson had undertaken against

          16   Granada and ITV.

          17       Q.  So I believe yesterday you testified that

          18   one of the people you reported to was Marc Schaffel?

          19       A.  Yes, that's correct.

          20       Q.  Did you also report to Ronald Konitzer?

          21       A.  Yes, I did.

          22       Q.  And what about Mark Geragos?

          23       A.  Yes, I did.

          24       Q.  When did Mark Geragos become part of the

          25   team?

          26       A.  I believe it was around the 7th of February.

          27       Q.  Okay.  During the time -- or the month of

          28   February, early February, did the problem of Mr.


                                                                 318






           1   Jackson's PR become exacerbated in any fashion?

           2       A.  Yes, it did.

           3       Q.  Specifically why?

           4       A.  Besides the documentary?

           5       Q.  Yes.

           6       A.  There was some information released about

           7   Mr. Jackson in the public that I felt also

           8   negatively impacted his image.

           9       Q.  Okay.  What?  What was it?

          10           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.  352; foundation;

          11   and hearsay.

          12           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  This is also offered to

          13   explain her conduct as well as the conduct of the

          14   team and the level of the crisis.

          15           MR. MESEREAU:  Your Honor, I would object.

          16   She's not qualified as an expert.

          17           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  She's not offering an

          18   opinion at this point.

          19           THE COURT:  I'm not considering her testimony

          20   as expert testimony.  She's a percipient witness as

          21   to what happened during this time period, and that's

          22   the only way that I'm considering her testimony.

          23   That's why I denied your 402 request, because she's

          24   just a percipient witness.

          25           So -- and on your 352 objection, was that

          26   over a time -- I'm not sure -- which of the many

          27   specific areas were you objecting under 352?

          28           MR. MESEREAU:  Well, Your Honor, she worked


                                                                 319






           1   for less than two --

           2           THE COURT:  No, which of the legal

           3   subsections of 352 are you relying on --

           4           MR. MESEREAU:  All of them.

           5           THE COURT:  -- for your objection?

           6           MR. MESEREAU:  All of them.

           7           THE COURT:  All right.  Overruled.

           8           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Okay.

           9       Q.  So I'll back up a little bit.  You've said

          10   that there were additional problems that arose in

          11   the media.  Did you have to perceive it as your

          12   duties to deal with these problems as a PR

          13   representative for Mr. Jackson?

          14       A.  Yes, I did.

          15       Q.  So these problems became your problems?

          16       A.  Absolutely.  I felt it was my position to

          17   address anything that affected Mr. Jackson

          18   negatively.

          19       Q.  So what was coming out in the media at this

          20   point?

          21       A.  There were documents that were released on a

          22   website, thesmokinggun.com, that, in conjunction

          23   with the Bashir documentary, I felt was just

          24   absolutely beyond a disaster for Mr. Jackson.

          25       Q.  Okay.  And what did those documents concern?

          26           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.  Hearsay;

          27   foundation; 352.

          28           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  As reported in the media,


                                                                 320






           1   is the question.

           2           MR. MESEREAU:  Same objection, Your Honor.

           3           THE COURT:  I'll overrule the objection, but

           4   advise the jury, again, that this area is not being

           5   offered for the truth of the matter asserted; that

           6   whatever she's going to testify to that appeared on

           7   The Smoking Gun is being offered strictly to show

           8   why she took her next action.

           9       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  And I'm not asking you

          10   specifically what was written in those documents.

          11   I'm just asking in general terms, what was that

          12   document about?

          13       A.  It addressed another PR issue that Mr.

          14   Jackson had in 1993.

          15       Q.  What was that PR issue?

          16           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.

          17           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  That's my question.

          18           MR. MESEREAU:  352; foundation; hearsay; no

          19   personal knowledge.

          20           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  I believe she has personal

          21   knowledge --

          22           THE COURT:  I've already ruled on this.  The

          23   objection is overruled.  Go ahead.

          24       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  You may answer the

          25   question.

          26       A.  They involved Mr. Jackson having

          27   inappropriate actions with a young boy.

          28       Q.  Okay.  The '93 case?


                                                                 321






           1       A.  Yes.

           2       Q.  Okay.  What else was there?  What other

           3   problems, other than the '93 case, did you -- that

           4   came up?  You said there were several.

           5       A.  Besides the documentary, the things that

           6   were contained in the documentary?

           7       Q.  Yes, uh-huh.

           8       A.  Well, the media then began to pick up on any

           9   number of things about Mr. Jackson.  Pediatricians

          10   were weighing in about the way that he fed his baby

          11   on the documentary.  There was just several -- they

          12   were attacking him personally from every angle.

          13       Q.  Okay.  Were there any other news --

          14   purported news programs that were coming?

          15       A.  Yes, there were.

          16       Q.  What was that?

          17       A.  NBC was doing a program about Mr. Jackson's

          18   purported plastic surgeries.

          19       Q.  Just that, or did that include other things?

          20       A.  Also included other things.

          21       Q.  Okay.  Was that actually aired?

          22       A.  Yes, it was.

          23       Q.  Was that positive or negative for Mr.

          24   Jackson, in general terms?

          25       A.  In general, I felt it was very negative.

          26       Q.  What about members of the team specifically?

          27   Were there ever any members of the team that became

          28   problems or burdens in terms of the media and Mr.


                                                                 322






           1   Jackson's image?

           2       A.  Yes, there was.

           3       Q.  Who?

           4       A.  Mr. Schaffel.

           5       Q.  Marc Schaffel?

           6       A.  Marc Schaffel, yes.

           7       Q.  And why was he a problem?

           8           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.  352; foundation;

           9   hearsay.

          10           THE COURT:  Vague; sustained.

          11       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  What was it

          12   specifically that was reported in the media?  And

          13   I'm just asking you -- well, let me just say

          14   generally, why was Mr. Schaffel a problem in the

          15   media concerning Mr. Jackson?

          16           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.  Foundation;

          17   hearsay; vague; 352.

          18           THE COURT:  The objection's overruled.

          19           THE WITNESS:  Mr. Schaffel had a very

          20   negative image and I felt very strongly that that

          21   image might taint Mr. Jackson.

          22       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  All right.  Who else

          23   had a problem?

          24       A.  With Mr. Schaffel?

          25       Q.  No.  Was there any other member of the team

          26   that presented a problem for Mr. Jackson, I should

          27   say?

          28       A.  Not of the team per se.  But there were --


                                                                 323






           1   there was someone else that Mr. Jackson's name was

           2   associated in the press that I felt would be a

           3   problem.

           4       Q.  Okay.  Who else was that?

           5       A.  Mr. Malnik.  Al Malnik.

           6       Q.  Okay.  You say you were hired by Mr.

           7   Jackson.  Have you ever met Mr. Jackson?

           8       A.  No, sir, I have not.

           9       Q.  And why did you believe that you were

          10   working for him?

          11       A.  Because David LeGrand told me that I was.

          12   And the contract that I signed said "MJJ

          13   Productions" on it.

          14       Q.  All right.  And did you, in fact, work on

          15   Mr. Jackson's behalf?

          16       A.  Yes, sir, absolutely.

          17       Q.  Okay.  Who did you understand was paying

          18   your $10,000 retainer?

          19       A.  Mr. Jackson.

          20       Q.  What proactive measures, if any, did you

          21   want to take to address these issues?

          22       A.  Well, I believed that immediately there

          23   should be a very strong on-camera statement from

          24   Mr. Jackson himself.  I wanted to be able to explore

          25   the documentary that Mr. Bashir had created to see

          26   if there were any technical inconsistencies.  I

          27   wanted to be able to use everything at my disposal

          28   to try to find a way to address the issues that


                                                                 324






           1   Mr. Jackson was experiencing and give the other side

           2   of the story.

           3       Q.  Have you ever heard of the organization

           4   called "Fire Mountain"?

           5       A.  Yes, I have.

           6       Q.  What is Fire Mountain?

           7       A.  Fire Mountain is a corporation --

           8           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; foundation.

           9           THE COURT:  Sustained.

          10       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Was there a film that

          11   was being prepared to help address the PR issues?

          12       A.  Yes, there was.

          13       Q.  Whose idea was that?

          14       A.  I don't know the answer to that --

          15       Q.  Okay.

          16       A.   -- specifically.

          17       Q.  But it wasn't your idea?

          18       A.  No, sir.

          19       Q.  Was there a member of the team that was

          20   preparing this film?

          21       A.  Yes.

          22       Q.  Who was that?

          23       A.  Mr. Schaffel.

          24       Q.  Do you know what the subject matter of this

          25   film was?

          26       A.  It was to be a rebuttal to Martin Bashir's

          27   documentary.

          28       Q.  Did you have any discussions with the team


                                                                 325






           1   concerning what network or what broadcast medium

           2   would be used to show this film?

           3       A.  Yes, I did.

           4       Q.  Do you know whether it was ultimately aired?

           5       A.  Yes, it was.

           6       Q.  On which network?

           7       A.  FOX.

           8       Q.  Do you know why FOX was chosen?

           9       A.  Yes, I do.

          10       Q.  Why is that?

          11       A.  Because they would give Mr. Schaffel an

          12   element of creative control.

          13       Q.  Were there any other networks that were

          14   bidding for it?

          15       A.  Yes, there was.

          16       Q.  Who?

          17       A.  NBC.

          18       Q.  Did you have any input into whether or not

          19   certain people would be included on this rebuttal

          20   film?

          21       A.  I had a discussion with Mr. Schaffel about

          22   the rebuttal film, yes.

          23       Q.  Did you provide him some -- your insights as

          24   to what should be presented?

          25       A.  He told me some things that he thought --

          26   some people that he thought he was going to put on

          27   the film and asked me what I thought.  And I told

          28   him --


                                                                 326






           1           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; hearsay.

           2           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  This is offered to explain

           3   conduct and -- actually, I can -- I can move on and

           4   get more to the point.  So I'll withdraw the

           5   question and allow the striking of the answer.

           6           THE COURT:  I'll strike the answer.  But she

           7   never got to say anything about what was said.

           8           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Very well.

           9           THE COURT:  Go ahead.

          10       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Did you have -- did you

          11   have a discussion about Mr. Jackson's ex-wives with

          12   Mr. Schaffel?

          13       A.  Yes, I did.

          14       Q.  Did you have a suggestion for him about

          15   whether one of these -- one or both of these

          16   ex-wives should be presented on the rebuttal film?

          17       A.  Yes, I did.

          18           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.  352; foundation.

          19           THE COURT:  The question calls for hearsay.

          20           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  The question -- Your

          21   Honor, I haven't asked for a statement.  I've just

          22   asked whether she had a discussion.

          23           THE COURT:  All right.  I'll overrule the

          24   objection.

          25           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  All right.

          26       Q.  Did you have a discussion with Mr. Schaffel

          27   about that?

          28       A.  Yes, I did.


                                                                 327






           1       Q.  And did you make a suggestion?

           2       A.  Yes, I did.

           3       Q.  What did you suggest?

           4           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.  352; foundation.

           5           THE COURT:  Calls for hearsay.

           6           MR. MESEREAU:  Hearsay.

           7           THE COURT:  Sustained.

           8       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Did Mr. Schaffel ever

           9   make any comments to you concerning his influence

          10   over Debbie Rowe?

          11           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.  Leading;

          12   foundation; hearsay; 352.

          13           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  I'll be happy to give you

          14   an offer of proof, Your Honor.

          15           THE COURT:  The leading is sustained.

          16       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Ms. Kite --

          17           (Laughter.)

          18           THE COURT:  Go ahead.

          19           BAILIFF CORTEZ:  Try it again?

          20           THE COURT:  Yes.

          21           BAILIFF CORTEZ:  It's back on, Judge.

          22           THE COURT:  All right.  Go ahead.

          23       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Did you have a

          24   discussion with Mr. Schaffel about proposed -- any

          25   proposed individuals that would appear on the

          26   rebuttal film?

          27           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.  Leading;

          28   foundation; hearsay; 352.


                                                                 328






           1           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Hardly leading.

           2           THE COURT:  Objection is overruled.

           3           THE WITNESS:  Yes, I did.

           4       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Okay.  Who did you

           5   discuss?

           6       A.  Debbie Rowe.

           7       Q.  Okay.  And did you have a feeling about

           8   whether or not, from a PR standpoint, she would be a

           9   good candidate for this rebuttal film?

          10           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.  Hearsay;

          11   foundation; 352; leading.

          12           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  The question is, did she

          13   have a feeling.

          14           MR. MESEREAU:  Relevance; and vague.

          15           THE COURT:  Overruled.

          16           You may answer.

          17           THE WITNESS:  I'm sorry, you're going to

          18   have to ask again after all that.

          19           THE COURT:  I'll have the question read back.

          20           (Record read.)

          21           THE WITNESS:  Yes, I did.

          22       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  What was that?

          23           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.  352; relevance;

          24   foundation; hearsay.

          25           THE COURT:  Overruled.

          26           THE WITNESS:  I'm sorry.

          27           THE COURT:  I can have it read back.

          28           THE WITNESS:  Please.


                                                                 329






           1           (Record read.)

           2           THE WITNESS:  Yes, I did.

           3       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  And what was that

           4   feeling?

           5       A.  I didn't think she was the strongest

           6   candidate.

           7       Q.  And what was Mr. Schaffel's response?

           8           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.  Hearsay; 352.

           9           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  This is offered in

          10   furtherance of the conspiracy.

          11           MR. MESEREAU:  Foundation.

          12           THE COURT:  All right.  I'm taking the --

          13   this testimony subject to the proving up of the

          14   conspiracy.  I'll allow the question.

          15       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  What did Mr. Schaffel

          16   tell you?

          17       A.  He said that he could get Debbie Rowe to say

          18   whatever he wanted her to say.

          19       Q.  Thank you.

          20           This notebook is coming apart, Your Honor.

          21   If I can have just a moment.

          22           During the course of your work with the

          23   team, I believe you testified that you used the

          24   Internet to communicate through e-mails?

          25       A.  Yes, that's correct.

          26           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  I previously provided

          27   counsel with copies of all these documents, Your

          28   Honor, that I'm going to be showing the witness.


                                                                 330






           1           And for the record, this is document

           2   number -- from original exhibits, Schaffel files,

           3   and appears to be a document itemized under 403,

           4   page 17.  It appears to be a three-page e-mail from

           5   Ronald at High Tech America to Marc in L.A. dated

           6   2-16-03.

           7           THE COURT:  Is it marked?

           8           MR. MESEREAU:  May we see that for a second,

           9   please?  Thank you.

          10           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  I provided you with

          11   copies.

          12           (Off-the-record discussion held at counsel

          13   table.)

          14       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  All right.

          15           THE COURT:  Now, this is a formally marked

          16   exhibit?

          17           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  It is, Your Honor.

          18           THE COURT:  403 is the exhibit number?

          19           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  It is the exhibit number.

          20   and it is beginning on page 17 of Exhibit No. 403.

          21       Q.  If you could take a moment and just look at

          22   page four -- or Exhibit No. 403, what I've

          23   identified, pages 17, 18, and 19.

          24           MR. SANGER:  Could we just have a moment?

          25           MR. MESEREAU:  Excuse me.  We don't have the

          26   second page of that exhibit.  Maybe we could --

          27           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  It's in the packet I gave

          28   you.


                                                                 331






           1           MR. MESEREAU:  It's in the back?

           2           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  It's in the packet I gave

           3   you yesterday.  Do you have that?

           4           MR. MESEREAU:  It's not in the binder.  Is

           5   it somewhere else?

           6           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Yes.

           7           MR. MESEREAU:  It appears to say page one of

           8   two, but there's no page two.

           9           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Is it in --

          10           MS. YU:  The individual packet?

          11           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Yeah, it's in there.

          12           (Off-the-record discussion held at counsel

          13   table.)

          14       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Have you had a moment

          15   to look at that?

          16       A.  Yes.

          17       Q.  Can you identify that for me?

          18       A.  Yes.

          19           MR. MESEREAU:  I'm not blaming anybody.  We

          20   don't seem to have page two of the exhibit.

          21           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  I'm sorry.  I'll take a

          22   moment and show counsel.

          23           (Off-the-record discussion held at counsel

          24   table.)

          25       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  All right.  Have you

          26   had a chance to look at that?

          27       A.  Yes, I have.

          28       Q.  Can you identify it for me?


                                                                 332






           1       A.  Yes, it's an e-mail that I sent to Ronald

           2   Konitzer with --

           3       Q.  Okay.  What was the date of the e-mail that

           4   you sent to Ronald Konitzer?

           5       A.  It was the 14th of February.

           6       Q.  And what was -- I'm not going to ask you to

           7   read it to the jury at this time.  We're going to

           8   lay some additional foundation with this exhibit at

           9   a later time.  But I'm going to ask you to tell me

          10   what was the substance of that e-mail, and what was

          11   your purpose in sending it.  And let's start with,

          12   what was -- what was the concern you expressed in

          13   that e-mail?

          14       A.  I expressed great concern that there were

          15   many things that were preparing to break negatively

          16   against Mr. Jackson over the next 72 hours, which

          17   would have been between the 14th of February and the

          18   17th.  And I just did not understand why there

          19   wasn't anyone --

          20           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.  Narrative and

          21   nonresponsive.

          22           THE COURT:  Sustained as to the last sentence

          23   is stricken.

          24           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Okay.

          25       Q.  So I was asking you what your concerns were.

          26   What concerns specifically did you express in that

          27   e-mail?

          28       A.  That --


                                                                 333






           1           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; hearsay.

           2           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Your Honor, this is

           3   offered to show knowledge on behalf of the

           4   co-conspirators, the reasons for the part of the

           5   motive of this case, the nature of the crisis, and

           6   the action that were taken on behalf of this witness

           7   to alert --

           8           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.  That is a

           9   speaking objection, Your Honor.

          10           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Goes to the objection.

          11           THE COURT:  Are you offering this -- are you

          12   offering this to explain a response from the

          13   recipient of this e-mail?

          14           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  I am offering it, Your

          15   Honor, to explain -- it's offered to explain the

          16   conduct as well as the information that was conveyed

          17   by this witness to the co-conspirators regarding the

          18   degree of the crisis that existed at that time.

          19           Now, it is not being offered into evidence

          20   at this time, but I'm laying foundation for its

          21   offering that will provide additional foundation at

          22   a later date.

          23           MR. MESEREAU:  May I object, Your Honor?

          24           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Her purposes in sending

          25   this e-mail and the fact that she did send it to

          26   Mr. Konitzer and provided him with this information

          27   is relevant as to Mr. Konitzer's knowledge of the

          28   events.


                                                                 334






           1           MR. MESEREAU:  I object on hearsay and

           2   foundation.  And there's no evidence whatsoever

           3   Mr. Jackson's involved in any conspiracy.

           4           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  That remains to be seen.

           5           THE COURT:  Any of the conspiracy evidence is

           6   being received subject to the proving up of the

           7   conspiracy, as I've indicated.

           8           The Court will allow the question here with

           9   the admonition that the information that is being

          10   conveyed in the e-mail is not offered for the truth

          11   of the matter asserted, but to show that the

          12   recipient received this information.  Or not that he

          13   received it; that it was sent to him.

          14           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  All right.

          15           THE COURT:  Go ahead.

          16       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  So, back to my

          17   question.  I'll rephrase it.  Why don't we -- what

          18   was your purpose in sending this e-mail?  Why don't

          19   I ask it that way.

          20       A.  To advise Mr. Konitzer that over the next 72

          21   hours Mr. Jackson was going to face another barrage

          22   of extremely negative publicity, and it needed to be

          23   addressed immediately.

          24       Q.  Were the --

          25           THE COURT:  All right.  Let's take our

          26   morning break.

          27           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  All right.

          28           (Recess taken.)


                                                                 335






           1                       REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE

           2

           3

           4   THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE     )

           5   OF CALIFORNIA,              )

           6                Plaintiff,     )

           7           -vs-               )   No. 1133603

           8   MICHAEL JOE JACKSON,       )

           9               Defendant.     )

          10

          11

          12           I, MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR,

          13   CSR #3304, Official Court Reporter, do hereby

          14   certify:

          15           That the foregoing pages 302 through 335

          16   contain a true and correct transcript of the

          17   proceedings had in the within and above-entitled

          18   matter as by me taken down in shorthand writing at

          19   said proceedings on March 2, 2005, and thereafter

          20   reduced to typewriting by computer-aided

          21   transcription under my direction.

          22              DATED: Santa Maria, California,

          23   March 2, 2005.

          24

          25

          26

          27           MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR, CSR #3304

          28


                                                                 336






           1          SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

           2            IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF SANTA BARBARA

           3           SANTA MARIA BRANCH; COOK STREET DIVISION

           4     DEPARTMENT SM-2       HON. RODNEY S. MELVILLE, JUDGE

           5

           6

           7   THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF       )

           8   CALIFORNIA,                      )

           9                     Plaintiff,      )

          10            -vs-                     ) No. 1133603

          11   MICHAEL JOE JACKSON,              )

          12                    Defendant.      )

          13

          14

          15

          16

          17           REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

          18

          19               WEDNESDAY, MARCH 2, 2005

          20

          21                       8:30 A.M.

          22

          23                (PAGES 337 THROUGH 528)

          24

          25

          26

          27   REPORTED   MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR, CSR #3304

          28   BY:        Official Court Reporter


                                                                 337






           1   APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:

           2

           3
               For Plaintiff:     THOMAS W. SNEDDON, JR.,
           4                        District Attorney
                                         -and-
           5                      RONALD J. ZONEN,
                                    Sr. Deputy District Attorney
           6                             -and-
                                  GORDON AUCHINCLOSS,
           7                        Sr. Deputy District Attorney
                                         -and-
           8                      GERALD McC. FRANKLIN,
                                    Sr. Deputy District Attorney
           9                      1112 Santa Barbara Street
                                  Santa Barbara, California 93101
          10

          11

          12
               For Defendant:     COLLINS, MESEREAU, REDDOCK & YU
          13                      BY:  THOMAS A. MESEREAU, JR., ESQ.
                                            -and-
          14                           SUSAN C. YU, ESQ.
                                  1875 Century Park East, Suite 700
          15                      Los Angeles, California 90067

          16                                -and-

          17                      SANGER & SWYSEN
                                  BY:   ROBERT M. SANGER, ESQ.
          18                      233 East Carrillo Street, Suite C
                                  Santa Barbara, California 93101
          19
                                            -and-
          20
                                  OXMAN and JAROSCAK
          21                      BY:  R. BRIAN OXMAN, ESQ.
                                  14126 East Rosecrans Boulevard
          22                      Santa Fe Springs, California 90670

          23

          24

          25

          26

          27

          28


                                                                 338






           1                       I  N  D  E  X

           2

           3   Note:
                       Mr. Sneddon is listed as "SN" on index.
           4           Mr. Zonen is listed as "Z" on index.
                       Mr. Auchincloss is listed as "A" on index.
           5           Mr. Mesereau is listed as "M" on index.
                       Ms. Yu is listed as "Y" on index.
           6           Mr. Sanger is listed as "SA" on index.
                       Mr. Oxman is listed as "O" on index.
           7

           8

           9   PLAINTIFF'S
               WITNESSES               DIRECT  CROSS  REDIRECT RECROSS
          10

          11   KITE, Ann Marie                363-M    490-A   513-M

          12

          13   LAFFERTY, Albert        516-S

          14

          15

          16

          17

          18

          19

          20

          21

          22

          23

          24

          25

          26

          27

          28


                                                                 339






           1                   E  X  H  I  B  I  T  S

           2

           3                                                FOR    IN
               PLAINTIFF'S NO.       DESCRIPTION            I.D.  EVID.
           4

           5       4   Map of Santa Ynez Valley             520    521

           6
                   5   Map of Los Olivos, Figueroa
           7           Mountain Road and Ranch location     520    521

           8       6   Aerial photo showing Neverland
                       Ranch
           9
                   7   Aerial photo showing security office,
          10           arcade, main house and guest house on
                       Neverland Ranch                       520   521
          11
                   8   Aerial photo showing main house,
          12           guest house, train station at
                       Neverland Ranch                       520   521
          13
                   9   Aerial photo showing theater,
          14           race track and amusement area at
                       Neverland Ranch                       520   521
          15
                  10   Aerial photo showing theater at
          16           Neverland Ranch                       520   521

          17      11   Aerial photo showing zoo at
                       Neverland Ranch                       520   521
          18
                  12   Aerial photo showing train station
          19           at Neverland Ranch                    520   521

          20     405   2-8-03 Bell Yard embargoed statement
                       of Janet Arvizo                       341
          21
                 410   List of phone numbers                 343
          22
                 412   Appearance, Consent and Release form  345
          23

          24

          25

          26

          27

          28


                                                                 340






           1           THE COURT:  Go ahead.

           2           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Thank you, Your Honor.

           3           Madam Reporter, could I have a read-back on

           4   the last question?  I think we left on a question.

           5           (Record read.)

           6           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  All right.  Thank you.

           7       Q.  Showing you at this time Exhibit No. 405,

           8   page one.  It appears to be a statement from Bell

           9   Yard regarding Janet Arvizo, dated February 8th,

          10   2003.

          11           Ms. Kite, did you prepare that statement?

          12       A.  No, sir, I did not.

          13       Q.  Did you have anything to do with the

          14   preparation of that statement?

          15       A.  No, sir, I did not.

          16       Q.  Are you familiar with that type of statement

          17   in the capacity of being a PR --

          18       A.  Yes, I am.

          19       Q.   -- person?

          20           What does it mean when a statement is

          21   embargoed?

          22       A.  It means that the statement is prepared and

          23   sent out to the news wires, but that the media isn't

          24   allowed to release the statement until the time

          25   that's stated on the press release.  That's what

          26   embargoed means.  It means we'll send you the

          27   information, but you need to hold it until the time

          28   we've specified before you can put it out.


                                                                 341






           1       Q.  So this statement would be -- it would not

           2   be allowed to be printed in the media until what

           3   time, according --

           4           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; foundation.

           5       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Assuming this statement

           6   is a statement for -- that is embargoed until

           7   February 8th, midnight.

           8       A.  22 --

           9           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; leading and no

          10   foundation.  She's not familiar with the document,

          11   Your Honor.

          12           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  These are expert

          13   questions, Your Honor.

          14           THE COURT:  I haven't been accepting her

          15   testimony at this point as an expert.

          16           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Well, I do think she had

          17   familiarity sufficient to talk about the nature of

          18   embargoed documents when they are released to the

          19   media.

          20           THE COURT:  And she has.  But the question

          21   now you asked was specifically as to this document.

          22           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  I can talk hypothetically,

          23   if you'd like.

          24           THE COURT:  All right.

          25       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  All right.

          26   Hypothetically speaking, if a document was embargoed

          27   for a date, let's say January 1st, at twelve noon,

          28   what does that mean in terms of its production in


                                                                 342






           1   the media?

           2       A.  Well --

           3           MR. MESEREAU:  I'm going to object, Your

           4   Honor.  She's not qualified as an expert.

           5           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  This is an area where she

           6   has knowledge, Your Honor.  It's beyond the -- it's

           7   beyond the scope of a layperson's understanding in

           8   these areas.

           9           THE COURT:  The objection is overruled.

          10           You may answer.

          11           THE WITNESS:  What it means is that the

          12   person producing the document puts the information

          13   together, and sends it out to the media.  The media

          14   has it in their hands, but they cannot release it

          15   for public consumption until the time that's stated

          16   on the document.

          17       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  All right.  Moving on

          18   to Exhibit No. 410, page one.  It appears to be a

          19   list of phone numbers.  First name is Mark Geragos,

          20   Criminal Lawyer, in the upper left-hand side.

          21           Is your name on that list of phone numbers?

          22       A.  Yes, sir, it is.

          23       Q.  Are there any other members of the team on

          24   that list of phone numbers?

          25       A.  Yes, there are.

          26       Q.  Which ones?

          27           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.  Foundation;

          28   hearsay.


                                                                 343






           1           THE COURT:  The foundation is sustained.  And

           2   what I'm thinking of -- I'm not sure what Mr.

           3   Mesereau was thinking of, but what I'm thinking of

           4   is "the team" is vague.

           5           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  As to members of the team.

           6           THE COURT:  You said that, yes.  That was

           7   your question.  And I don't know what you're

           8   referring to.

           9           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  All right.

          10       Q.  You mentioned that there was a number of

          11   people that were on a PR team; is that correct?

          12       A.  Yes.

          13       Q.  To deal with the issues, the PR problem that

          14   you previously identified, regarding Michael

          15   Jackson?

          16       A.  Yes.

          17       Q.  Are there any other members of that PR team

          18   that are on that phone sheet that is before you?

          19       A.  Yes, there are.

          20       Q.  Which ones?

          21       A.  Mark Geragos, Ronald Konitzer, Richard

          22   Elsen, Stuart Backerman, David LeGrand, and myself.

          23   And these are the people that I dealt with directly.

          24       Q.  Is there a phone number associated with your

          25   name?

          26       A.  Yes, there is.

          27       Q.  Is it correct?

          28       A.  Yes, it is.


                                                                 344






           1       Q.  Are there any other names on that list that

           2   were the subject of the PR issues that you were

           3   addressing?

           4       A.  Yes, there is.

           5       Q.  What names?

           6       A.  Gavin Arvizo.

           7       Q.  Any others?

           8       A.  Yes.  Debbie Rowe.

           9       Q.  All right.  Is that it?

          10       A.  Yes, as far as I can tell.

          11       Q.  All right.  Thank you.

          12           Finally, I'll show you what appears to be a

          13   release form, Exhibit No. 412, page number two.

          14   Have you ever seen that document?

          15       A.  Yes, I have.

          16       Q.  Did you prepare that -- a portion of that

          17   document?

          18       A.  Yes, I did.

          19       Q.  Was there a portion of that document that

          20   was not prepared by you?

          21       A.  Yes, there was.

          22       Q.  Where did you get that document from, that

          23   portion that you're describing?

          24       A.  David LeGrand.

          25       Q.  Okay.  First of all, describe for me what

          26   they have here as that exhibit.

          27       A.  This is an appearance, consent and release

          28   form.


                                                                 345






           1       Q.  And it came to you from David LeGrand?

           2       A.  Yes, it did.

           3       Q.  On what date; do you know?

           4       A.  I believe it was around the 10th of

           5   February.

           6       Q.  And were you instructed to do something with

           7   this document?

           8       A.  Yes, I was.

           9       Q.  What was that?

          10       A.  I was instructed to take out the words "MJJ

          11   Productions Inc." and put in "Gabriel Media, Inc."

          12       Q.  Did you do that?

          13       A.  Yes, I did.

          14       Q.  What did you do with the document then?

          15       A.  I sent it back to Mr. LeGrand.

          16       Q.  Do you know what the purpose of that action

          17   was?

          18           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; hearsay.

          19           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  It's a yes or no question.

          20           MR. MESEREAU:  Foundation for elements.

          21           THE COURT:  Foundation; sustained.

          22       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  All right.  During your

          23   work for Mr. Jackson, at some point, did you become

          24   aware of a problem involving the Arvizo family?

          25       A.  Yes, I did.

          26       Q.  How did you become aware of that problem?

          27           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.  Hearsay;

          28   foundation; 352.


                                                                 346






           1           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Offered in furtherance of

           2   the conspiracy.

           3           THE COURT:  Overruled.

           4           THE WITNESS:  Mr. Schaffel called me.

           5       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Do you remember the

           6   approximate date or the date that that call took

           7   place?

           8       A.  Yes, it was the 13th of February.

           9       Q.  And what did Mr. Schaffel tell you?

          10           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; hearsay.

          11           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Offered in furtherance of

          12   the conspiracy.

          13           THE COURT:  Overruled.

          14           THE WITNESS:  He told me that Janet had

          15   taken the kids and left the ranch either late at

          16   night or early in the morning.

          17       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Did you express any

          18   concern to him?

          19           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; leading.

          20       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  At that time?

          21           THE COURT:  You may answer.

          22           THE WITNESS:  Well, I didn't understand what

          23   it was that he was trying to say to me.  I mean, I

          24   knew what he said, but I wasn't understanding where

          25   he was going with it.

          26       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Was Mr. Schaffel --

          27   what was his demeanor when he was telling you this?

          28       A.  He was extremely agitated.


                                                                 347






           1       Q.  Did you understand what was the source of

           2   his agitation?

           3       A.  Yes.  That Janet had taken the kids and left

           4   the ranch.

           5       Q.  Sometime later, did you receive another

           6   phone call or have another phone conversation with

           7   Mr. Schaffel concerning this subject?

           8       A.  Yes, I did.

           9       Q.  When was that?

          10       A.  It was later that day.

          11       Q.  And what was said?

          12           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; hearsay.

          13           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Offered in furtherance of

          14   the conspiracy.

          15           THE COURT:  All right.  The objection's

          16   overruled.

          17           THE WITNESS:  He said that the situation had

          18   been contained.

          19       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Did that concern you?

          20       A.  Yes, it did.

          21       Q.  Okay.  Why?

          22       A.  Because I believed that if somebody had

          23   taken their children and left the ranch, there must

          24   be some type of problem.  And the way that he

          25   answered me by saying the situation was contained

          26   made me very uncomfortable.

          27       Q.  Did you ask him any other questions about

          28   that?


                                                                 348






           1       A.  No, I did not.

           2       Q.  Did you have any further conversations with

           3   Mr. Schaffel about this subject?

           4       A.  During the -- one of the two conversations,

           5   and I believe it was the last one when he said the

           6   situation had been contained, he told me that he --

           7           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; nonresponsive.

           8           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  You can answer the

           9   question yes or no, first of all.

          10           THE WITNESS:  Yes.

          11       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  And what was said in

          12   that conversation?

          13           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; hearsay.

          14           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Offered in furtherance of

          15   the conspiracy

          16           THE COURT:  Overruled.

          17           THE WITNESS:  That he was going to fax me a

          18   letter; that he wanted me to put it away for

          19   safekeeping.

          20       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Did you ask him any

          21   further questions about that?

          22       A.  No, sir, I did not.

          23       Q.  Did he ever say anything to you about the

          24   ranch, about the family?

          25           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; leading.

          26           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Offered to refresh

          27   recollection.

          28           THE COURT:  The objection is sustained.


                                                                 349






           1           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  All right.

           2       Q.  Did he make any further statements to you

           3   about the Arvizo family?

           4       A.  Yes, he said that they had been brought back

           5   to the ranch.

           6       Q.  Did this conversation concern you?

           7       A.  Yes, it did.

           8       Q.  Why?

           9       A.  Because I didn't understand why he would be

          10   so upset about them leaving the ranch and then

          11   telling me the situation had been contained and that

          12   they had been brought back to the rather all within

          13   a span of approximately 12 hours or so.

          14       Q.  Did you have any conversations with other

          15   members of the team regarding this issue?

          16       A.  Yes, I did.

          17       Q.  Who else?

          18       A.  David LeGrand.

          19       Q.  When did that conversation take place?

          20       A.  It was later that same day, on the 13th.

          21       Q.  Did you call him or did he call you?

          22       A.  I called him.

          23       Q.  And what did you ask him?

          24       A.  I said, "Did I hear right, what Marc

          25   Schaffel said to me; that Janet left the ranch?"

          26   And I said, "Don't make me believe --

          27           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; nonresponsive.

          28           THE COURT:  Overruled.


                                                                 350






           1           THE WITNESS:  I said, "Don't make me believe

           2   that these people were hunted down like dogs and

           3   brought back to the ranch."

           4           THE COURT:  Okay.  I'm going to strike that

           5   answer in response to the nonresponsive objection.

           6   The jury's to disregard the answer.

           7           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Okay.

           8       Q.  When did you tell Mr. LeGrand -- well, let

           9   me rephrase that.

          10           Did you tell Mr. LeGrand -- express to Mr.

          11   LeGrand your concern about the Arvizos?

          12       A.  Yes, I did.

          13           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; leading.

          14       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  What did you say?

          15           THE COURT:  Just a moment.  Overruled.

          16       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  What did you say?  How

          17   did you express your concern to Mr. LeGrand?

          18       A.  What words did I use?

          19       Q.  Yes.

          20           MR. MESEREAU:  It's hearsay, Your Honor.

          21           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  The response is what is

          22   being offered.  The responses to the question is

          23   being offered in advance of the conspiracy.

          24           THE COURT:  All right.  I'll allow the

          25   answer.

          26           Do you need the question read back?

          27           THE WITNESS:  Yes, Your Honor.  I don't

          28   understand the --


                                                                 351






           1           THE COURT:  All right.  She doesn't

           2   understand.  You need to rephrase your question.  We

           3   won't read it back.

           4       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  I need you to answer

           5   this question one more time for me.  What did you

           6   say to Mr. LeGrand concerning -- well, you

           7   previously said that Mr. LeGrand -- well, no.  Let

           8   me strike that.

           9           What did you say to Mr. LeGrand expressing

          10   your concern about the Arvizos, specifically?  What

          11   did you say?

          12       A.  Do you want my verbatim?

          13       Q.  Yes.

          14           MR. MESEREAU:  Hearsay and foundation.

          15           THE COURT:  Overruled.

          16           THE WITNESS:  I said, "Don't make me believe

          17   that these people were hunted down like dogs and

          18   brought back to the ranch."

          19       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Did Mr. LeGrand answer

          20   your question directly?

          21       A.  Yes, he did.

          22       Q.  What did he say?

          23       A.  He said, "I can't discuss this right now."

          24       Q.  Then what happened?

          25       A.  Um, we continued to discuss what happened on

          26   the morning conference call with Bell Yard, and hung

          27   up.

          28       Q.  Did you ever express your concern or ask any


                                                                 352






           1   questions about this subject to any other members of

           2   the team?

           3       A.  Yes, I did.

           4       Q.  Who was that?

           5       A.  Ronald Konitzer.

           6       Q.  How did you express your concern to Ronald

           7   Konitzer?  Let me back up.

           8           First of all, when did this conversation

           9   take place?

          10       A.  It was later in the day of the 13th.

          11       Q.  And how did you express your concern to Mr.

          12   Konitzer?

          13           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.  Hearsay;

          14   foundation.

          15           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Same purpose, Your Honor.

          16           THE COURT:  To explain the response that's --

          17           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Yes.

          18           THE COURT:  -- that's in the furtherance of a

          19   conspiracy?

          20           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Yes.

          21           THE COURT:  All right.  I'll overrule the

          22   objection.

          23           THE WITNESS:  I asked him about Marc

          24   Schaffel's comment about the situation being

          25   contained.

          26       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  And do you recall

          27   specifically what you asked him?

          28       A.  Yes.  I said, "What was" -- "What was the


                                                                 353






           1   situation with Janet and Gavin leaving the ranch?"

           2       Q.  And what did he tell you?

           3       A.  He told me that --

           4           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; hearsay.

           5           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Offered in furtherance of

           6   the conspiracy.

           7           THE COURT:  The objection's overruled

           8           THE WITNESS:  He told me that the situation

           9   had been taken care of.

          10       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Did he offer any other

          11   explanation?

          12       A.  No, sir, he did not.

          13       Q.  Did anyone ever provide you with any further

          14   explanation of the Arvizo issue?

          15       A.  No, sir.

          16       Q.  Did this cause you concern?

          17       A.  Yes, it did.

          18           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; leading.

          19           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  I'll rephrase.

          20           THE COURT:  I'll sustain the objection.

          21       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  How did you feel about

          22   that?

          23       A.  Very concerned.

          24       Q.  Okay.  So during your tenure working with

          25   the team, how did you feel, or did you agree with

          26   how the team was conducting itself in terms of the

          27   PR --

          28           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; vague.


                                                                 354






           1       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  -- addressing the PR

           2   issues that you were hired to address?

           3           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; vague.

           4           THE COURT:  Compound.  Sustained.

           5       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Did you agree with the

           6   team, how the team was handling the PR problem?

           7       A.  No, I did not.

           8       Q.  Why not?

           9       A.  Because I believed that they were leaving

          10   Mr. Jackson exposed in a way that was extremely

          11   negative for him.

          12       Q.  How were they leaving him exposed?

          13       A.  By not addressing the issues that were being

          14   raised by the press.

          15       Q.  Were they being proactive?

          16       A.  No, not at all.

          17       Q.  When were you terminated as a PR

          18   representative?

          19       A.  On the 15th of February.

          20       Q.  Were you given an explanation as to why you

          21   were terminated?

          22       A.  I received an e-mail, if that's your

          23   question.

          24       Q.  Did they explain why -- the reason for your

          25   termination?

          26       A.  No.  There was no explanation.  I can tell

          27   you what the e-mail said.

          28       Q.  What did the e-mail say?


                                                                 355






           1       A.  The e-mail said Ronald --

           2           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; hearsay.

           3           THE COURT:  Sustained.

           4       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Okay.  I'll go back to

           5   the question.  Did the e-mail explain -- it didn't

           6   explain the reason for your termination?

           7       A.  No, sir.  It didn't.

           8           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; hearsay.

           9           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  It's not a statement.

          10           THE COURT:  It's not a statement.  It's an

          11   unstatement.  Sustained.

          12       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Did you -- were you

          13   ever provided, by anybody, with an explanation --

          14       A.  No, sir, I was not.

          15       Q.  -- as to why you were terminated?

          16       A.  No, sir.

          17       Q.  At some point did you prepare to make a

          18   statement, while you were still employed, on

          19   television?

          20       A.  Yes, I did.

          21       Q.  What was the television show?

          22       A.  Access Hollywood.

          23       Q.  And when was that?

          24       A.  When was it scheduled?

          25       Q.  Yes.

          26       A.  For the 14th of February.

          27       Q.  Were you ever told to clear such appearances

          28   before any member of the team?


                                                                 356






           1       A.  Not when the preparations for Access

           2   Hollywood were being made, no.

           3       Q.  Did you clear your appearance on Access

           4   Hollywood with any member of the team?

           5       A.  Yes, sir.

           6       Q.  Who?

           7       A.  I spoke with Mr. Schaffel, I spoke with Mr.

           8   Geragos and I spoke with Mr. Konitzer.

           9       Q.  Did you tell them what you were going to

          10   say?

          11       A.  Yes, sir.

          12       Q.  Did they agree with you to go ahead?

          13       A.  Yes, sir.

          14       Q.  And did you go to Access Hollywood and

          15   prepare to make that statement?

          16       A.  Yes, I did.

          17       Q.  I take it this was a pro Jackson statement

          18   on Mr. Jackson's behalf?

          19       A.  Yes, sir.

          20       Q.  Did something unusual happen while you were

          21   on the set?

          22       A.  Yes.

          23       Q.  What was that?

          24       A.  I was pulled off the set by Mr. Geragos.

          25       Q.  In what fashion?

          26       A.  He called Access Hollywood and told them to

          27   not do the interview with me.

          28       Q.  How much time before the expected filming of


                                                                 357






           1   the set were you pulled off?

           2       A.  I was actually miked and sitting on the set

           3   with Pat O'Brien.

           4       Q.  Okay.  Did that cause you some concern?

           5       A.  Yes, it did.

           6       Q.  Why?

           7       A.  Because I was of the belief that Mr. Jackson

           8   had been barraged by so much negative publicity, and

           9   I wanted to be able to get back into a proactive

          10   cycle for him.

          11       Q.  Did Mr. Geragos's involvement in this action

          12   cause you any concern?

          13       A.  Yes, it did.

          14       Q.  Why?

          15       A.  Because he was a criminal attorney.

          16       Q.  Why would that cause you concern?

          17           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.  Relevance;

          18   hearsay

          19           THE COURT:  Sustained.

          20       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Did you subsequently

          21   have a conversation with Mr. Geragos about your

          22   employment --

          23           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; leading.

          24       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  -- for Mr. Jackson?

          25           THE COURT:  Overruled.

          26           You may answer.

          27           THE WITNESS:  I'm sorry, I don't understand

          28   your question.


                                                                 358






           1       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  After you were pulled

           2   off the set of Access Hollywood, did you

           3   subsequently have any conversations with Mr. Geragos

           4   about your employment with Mr. Jackson?

           5       A.  I had a conversation with Mr. Geragos, yes.

           6       Q.  When did that take place?

           7       A.  On the set of Access Hollywood.

           8       Q.  So you spoke to him then?

           9       A.  Yes, on the phone.

          10       Q.  All right.  And what was that conversation

          11   about?

          12           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; hearsay.

          13           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Offered in furtherance of

          14   a conspiracy.

          15           THE COURT:  I'll sustain the objection,

          16   because it's vague, "What was the conversation

          17   about?"  It calls for a conclusion of the witness.

          18       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  I can be more specific.

          19           Did Mr. Geragos make any request of you?

          20       A.  Yes, he did.

          21       Q.  What was the request?

          22       A.  He --

          23           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; hearsay.

          24           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Offered in furtherance of

          25   the conspiracy.

          26           THE COURT:  Overruled.

          27           THE WITNESS:  He asked me to stay in town

          28   overnight and come into his office the next morning


                                                                 359






           1   and meet with him.

           2       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  For what purpose?

           3       A.  To sign a private --

           4           MR. MESEREAU:  Same objection.

           5           THE COURT:  Overruled.

           6           THE WITNESS:  To sign a private

           7   investigator's confidentiality agreement.

           8       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Are you a private

           9   investigator?

          10       A.  No, sir.

          11       Q.  Do you understand what that would have done

          12   to you if you had signed such an agreement?

          13       A.  I had an idea, sir.

          14           MR. MESEREAU:  Calls for speculation, Your

          15   Honor.

          16           THE COURT:  Sustained.

          17       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Did you have an

          18   understanding as to the effect, the legal effect of

          19   that agreement, if you signed it?

          20           MR. MESEREAU:  Foundation; speculation.

          21           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Goes to her intent as to

          22   whether she wanted to sign the agreement or not.

          23           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  I can ask another

          24   foundational question.

          25           THE COURT:  All right.  Go ahead.

          26       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Did you sign that

          27   agreement?

          28       A.  No, sir.


                                                                 360






           1       Q.  Why not?

           2           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.  Relevance;

           3   hearsay; foundation.

           4           THE COURT:  Overruled.

           5           You may answer.

           6           THE WITNESS:  Because I believed that it

           7   would negatively impact me.

           8       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Why?  In what way?

           9           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.  Speculation;

          10   relevance; foundation; hearsay.

          11           THE COURT:  Overruled.

          12           You may answer.

          13           THE WITNESS:  I believed it was designed to

          14   shut me up.

          15       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Based on your

          16   performance as a PR person for Michael Jackson, how

          17   would you evaluate your attempted performance or

          18   your attempt to help him in a PR sense?

          19           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.  Hearsay;

          20   relevance, foundation; calls for speculation;

          21   hearsay.

          22           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  How is this hearsay?  I

          23   don't see any -- this is her evaluation.  This is a

          24   spurious objection.

          25           MR. MESEREAU:  An opinion.

          26           THE COURT:  I'll sustain the objection and

          27   relevancy.  An opinion of her own performance.

          28           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Okay.


                                                                 361






           1       Q.  Did you ever form an opinion, based on

           2   everything that happened during this period of time

           3   that you were working for Mr. Jackson and the time

           4   immediately preceding it, as to why they terminated

           5   you?  Based on all the conduct of the parties, based

           6   on all you knew about this case and your job, did

           7   you ever form an opinion as to why you were

           8   terminated?

           9       A.  Yes, I did.

          10       Q.  What was your -- what's your opinion on

          11   that?

          12           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.  Opinion;

          13   relevance.

          14           THE COURT:  Sustained.

          15           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Not a proper lay opinion?

          16           THE COURT:  The objection was sustained.

          17           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  All right.

          18       Q.  After your termination, Ms. Kite, did you

          19   have a conversation with David LeGrand about Janet

          20   Arvizo?

          21       A.  Yes, I did.

          22           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.  Leading; hearsay.

          23           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  It's -- it's a yes or no

          24   question.  It is not hearsay.  And it's hardly

          25   leading.  It's just an open-ended question, whether

          26   she had a conversation.

          27           THE COURT:  Objection is overruled.  She did

          28   answer.  She said, "Yes, I did."


                                                                 362






           1           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  All right.

           2       Q.  When did this conversation take place?

           3       A.  Approximately a week to ten days after I was

           4   terminated.

           5       Q.  Were you in a room with him?  Telephone?

           6   You tell me.

           7       A.  We were on the telephone.

           8       Q.  And did he convey some information to you

           9   about Janet Arvizo?

          10       A.  Yes, he did.

          11       Q.  What did he say to you?

          12           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.  Hearsay;

          13   foundation; relevance.

          14           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Offered in furtherance of

          15   the conspiracy.

          16           THE COURT:  The objection is overruled.

          17           THE WITNESS:  He said that they no longer

          18   had to worry about Janet Arvizo because they had her

          19   on tape and they were going to make her look like a

          20   crank whore.

          21           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Thank you, Ms. Kite.  No

          22   further questions.

          23           THE COURT:  Cross-examine?

          24           MR. MESEREAU:  Yes, please, Your Honor.

          25

          26                    CROSS-EXAMINATION

          27   BY MR. MESSEREAU:

          28       Q.  Good morning.


                                                                 363






           1       A.  Good morning.

           2       Q.  Ms. Kite, my name is Thomas Mesereau and I

           3   speak for Mr. Jackson.

           4           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  I'm going to object to

           5   counsel's preamble concerning who he represents.

           6           THE COURT:  Overruled.

           7           (Laughter.)

           8       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  Ms. Kite, I'd like to

           9   refer you to Exhibit 410, which is a document the

          10   prosecutor showed you, which has names and phone

          11   numbers on it.  Do you see that document?  I think

          12   it's labeled as 410 in the book you have.

          13       A.  Yes, sir, I do.

          14       Q.  And just for the record, that is a document

          15   you referred to while the prosecutor was asking you

          16   questions, correct?

          17       A.  Yes, sir.

          18       Q.  And it's a document that appears to have

          19   names and phone numbers on it only, correct?

          20       A.  Yes, that's correct.

          21       Q.  And you looked at that document when you

          22   were testifying and you gave the names of people who

          23   were on the team, correct?

          24       A.  Yes, that's correct.

          25       Q.  And this was the team that you worked with

          26   for purposes of public relations, right?

          27       A.  Yes, sir.

          28       Q.  Does Mr. Jackson's name appear on that


                                                                 364






           1   document?

           2       A.  No, sir, it does not.

           3       Q.  Does Mr. Jackson's phone number appear on

           4   that document?

           5       A.  No, sir, it does not.

           6       Q.  And while you were working with this team,

           7   you never met Mr. Jackson, correct?

           8       A.  No, sir, I did not.

           9       Q.  And you never spoke with Mr. Jackson,

          10   correct?

          11       A.  No, I did not, that's correct.

          12       Q.  You never met any of the Arvizos, correct?

          13       A.  That's correct, sir.

          14       Q.  And at that time you never spoke to the

          15   Arvizos, correct?

          16       A.  No, sir, I did not.

          17       Q.  Have you ever been to Neverland?

          18       A.  No, sir, I have not.

          19       Q.  How long were you employed by this team?

          20       A.  From the 9th of February to the 15th of

          21   February.

          22       Q.  So you were brought on board on the 9th?

          23       A.  Officially, yes.

          24       Q.  You were terminated on the 15th?

          25       A.  Yes, sir.

          26       Q.  So you worked for less than a week?

          27       A.  That's correct, sir.

          28       Q.  Now, while you worked on this team for less


                                                                 365






           1   than a week, did you have other clients?

           2       A.  Yes, sir, I did.

           3       Q.  How many other clients were you working for

           4   during this six-day period?

           5       A.  Just one.

           6       Q.  Okay.  Who was that?

           7       A.  Webcaster Alliance.

           8       Q.  And you have represented that client for a

           9   long time; have you not?

          10       A.  At that time, no, I had not.

          11       Q.  Well, did you have a position with that

          12   client as well?

          13       A.  Yes, I did.

          14       Q.  What was your position with that client?

          15       A.  The president.

          16       Q.  Okay.  You were president of the Webcaster

          17   Alliance, correct?

          18       A.  Yes, sir.

          19       Q.  Would you please tell the jury what the

          20   Webcaster Alliance is?

          21       A.  The Webcaster Alliance is an organization

          22   that supports Internet-related webcasters, support

          23   services, manufacturers, anything to do with

          24   broadcasting music over the Internet.

          25       Q.  And how many people are members of that --

          26   or excuse me, let me rephrase that.

          27           How many people were members of that

          28   alliance at this particular time?


                                                                 366






           1       A.  At that time I don't remember specifically.

           2   I think it was a little bit over 100, but I'm not

           3   sure.

           4       Q.  In the six days that you represented Mr.

           5   Jackson, as you described it, and were president of

           6   this alliance, did you think you became an expert on

           7   Mr. Jackson's life?

           8       A.  Oh, no, sir, I would never profess to be an

           9   expert on anybody's life.

          10       Q.  Please answer my question.

          11       A.  No, sir.

          12       Q.  During the six days you claim you worked for

          13   this team, did you think you became an expert on Mr.

          14   Jackson's music?

          15       A.  No, sir.

          16       Q.  Okay.  During the six days that you worked

          17   with this team, and at the same time were president

          18   of the Webcaster Alliance, you didn't really become

          19   an expert on anything associated with Mr. Jackson,

          20   did you?

          21       A.  No, sir.

          22       Q.  Okay.  Now, you told the Santa Barbara

          23   sheriffs that you were very concerned that these

          24   people were ripping off Mr. Jackson, didn't you?

          25       A.  I don't remember saying that, sir.

          26       Q.  Did you ever tell anything to the Santa

          27   Barbara sheriff that suggested you thought these

          28   people were taking advantage of Mr. Jackson?


                                                                 367






           1       A.  I don't remember saying anything like that,

           2   sir.

           3       Q.  Okay.  You met with the Santa Barbara

           4   sheriffs approximately when; do you know?

           5       A.  I believe it was in March of 2004.

           6       Q.  Okay.  It was approximately March 11th,

           7   correct?

           8       A.  Yes, sir.

           9       Q.  And you gave them a lengthy statement, did

          10   you not?

          11       A.  Yes, I did.

          12       Q.  To your knowledge, was that statement

          13   recorded?

          14       A.  Yes, I believe it was.

          15       Q.  And were you told that your statement was

          16   going to appear in the form of a police report?

          17       A.  I don't remember, sir.

          18       Q.  Have you discussed your statement with

          19   anyone on the prosecution team at any time?

          20       A.  The statement in the police report?

          21       Q.  Yes.

          22       A.  Yes, I did.

          23       Q.  And when did you last discuss that with any

          24   member of the prosecution team?

          25       A.  I don't remember.  Sometime probably in the

          26   last couple weeks.

          27       Q.  Who did you talk to about that?

          28       A.  To Gordon, Mr. Auchincloss.


                                                                 368






           1       Q.  Okay.  And that's the prosecutor who just

           2   asked you questions, correct?

           3       A.  Yes.

           4       Q.  Did he give you a copy of that police report

           5   to look at?

           6       A.  Yes, he did.

           7       Q.  Did you read it?

           8       A.  Yes, I did.

           9       Q.  Did you discuss its contents with Mr.

          10   Auchincloss?

          11       A.  I don't understand your question.

          12       Q.  Did you discuss the contents of that police

          13   report with Mr. Auchincloss?

          14       A.  I discussed --

          15       Q.  Let me rephrase the --

          16       A.  Okay.

          17       Q.  Maybe I'm being --

          18       A.  Yeah, I'm sorry.  I'm not trying to be

          19   stupid.

          20       Q.  No, you're not.  Don't worry.

          21           Mr. Auchincloss gave you a copy of the

          22   police report, correct?

          23       A.  Yes, that's correct.

          24       Q.  He asked you to read it, correct?

          25       A.  Yes, he did.

          26       Q.  And it's a pretty long report, isn't it?

          27       A.  Yes, it is.

          28       Q.  And, in fact, it goes for many pages,


                                                                 369






           1   correct?

           2       A.  Yes, it does.

           3       Q.  And it is a narrative summary about what you

           4   told the police, true?

           5       A.  Yes, it is.

           6       Q.  What you told the sheriffs?

           7       A.  Yes, it is.  That's correct.

           8       Q.  And it actually -- you had an approximately

           9   90-minute conversation with the sheriffs in March

          10   when you were interviewed, true?

          11       A.  Yes, somewhere around there.  I don't

          12   remember the time.  But it was lengthy.

          13       Q.  You told them a lot of things you haven't

          14   said today, correct?

          15       A.  Yes, I did.

          16       Q.  You told them a lot of things that you felt

          17   about the way the so-called team was handling Mr.

          18   Jackson --

          19       A.  Yes, I did.

          20       Q.  -- correct?

          21       A.  That's correct.

          22       Q.  Okay.  Now, you are referred to as Ann

          23   Gabriel in the report, correct?

          24       A.  That's correct, sir.

          25       Q.  That was your name at the time, right?

          26       A.  That's the name I used professionally.

          27       Q.  Okay.  Was your name Kite at the time, your

          28   legal name?


                                                                 370






           1       A.  My legal name is still Kite, but I go

           2   professionally by Ann Gabriel.

           3       Q.  Okay.  And your understanding was that you

           4   would be referred to as "Gabriel" in the police

           5   report, true?

           6       A.  Yes, sir.

           7       Q.  You told the sheriffs that you are the owner

           8   of Gabriel Media, Inc., right?

           9       A.  Yes, sir.

          10       Q.  And you were asked how you got involved in

          11   this matter, right?

          12       A.  Yes, sir.

          13       Q.  Okay.  And you told the police that you were

          14   hired by Attorney David LeGrand, correct?

          15       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          16       Q.  And you had previously dated David LeGrand,

          17   right?

          18       A.  Yes, sir.

          19       Q.  You didn't tell that to the police at that

          20   time, correct?

          21       A.  No, sir, I did not.

          22       Q.  Okay.  Now, correct me if I'm wrong, did you

          23   stop dating Mr. LeGrand when you were hired by the

          24   team?

          25       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          26       Q.  Okay.  So you and LeGrand had a professional

          27   relationship only at that time?

          28       A.  Yes, that's correct.


                                                                 371






           1       Q.  And are you telling the jury that you ended

           2   the dating relationship just as you began this

           3   professional task?

           4       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

           5       Q.  Okay.  Did you and Mr. LeGrand talk about

           6   the fact that it might not look good if you guys

           7   were dating while you took this job?

           8       A.  No, sir, we did not.

           9       Q.  Did you ever disclose to other members of

          10   this team that you and Mr. LeGrand had dated before?

          11       A.  No, sir, I did not.

          12       Q.  You both agreed to keep that hidden, right?

          13       A.  No, sir.  We never agreed on anything.  We

          14   never discussed it.  We never agreed or disagreed or

          15   talked at all about hiding it or not hiding it.

          16       Q.  Okay.  Now, let me just explore that a

          17   little bit.  You and Mr. LeGrand are dating, and

          18   suddenly you decide to be hired as a professional

          19   public relations person, true?

          20           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection; argumentative.

          21           THE COURT:  Sustained.

          22       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  You and Mr. LeGrand were

          23   dating right up until the very moment that you were

          24   hired as a professional by this team?

          25       A.  No, sir, not right up until the very moment.

          26       Q.  Okay.  How much time was there between your

          27   relationship ending and you being hired to do public

          28   relations for this team?


                                                                 372






           1       A.  My relationship with Mr. LeGrand on a

           2   personal level --

           3       Q.  Yes.

           4       A.  -- stopped for that moment at the end of

           5   January, but it was always hanging out there.

           6       Q.  Okay.  And I'm not trying to pry into the

           7   nature of your relationship at all.

           8       A.  No, I have no problem answering your

           9   question.  I just want you to understand

          10   specifically, that for that moment in January, when

          11   we decided not to see each other personally

          12   anymore --

          13       Q.  Right.

          14       A.   -- it had nothing to do with any

          15   professional performance that he may engage me in in

          16   the future.

          17       Q.  Okay.  Now --

          18       A.  We were involved in other projects together

          19   on the professional side.

          20       Q.  When you were dating up until -- is it the

          21   9th of January, is that what you said?

          22       A.  No, the end of January.

          23       Q.  The end of January.  When you were dating

          24   Mr. LeGrand up until the end of January, did you

          25   ever discuss the possibility of your being hired to

          26   do public relations for this team?

          27       A.  Yes, sir.

          28       Q.  And at some point, you must have both


                                                                 373






           1   agreed, '"We're going to terminate the relationship

           2   and I'm going to be hired on the team," right?

           3           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection; argumentative.

           4           THE COURT:  It's asked and answered.

           5   Sustained.

           6       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  Needless to say, you never

           7   told Mr. Jackson that you had had this prior

           8   relationship, right?

           9       A.  Oh, no, sir, I never spoke to Mr. Jackson.

          10       Q.  Never wrote him either?

          11       A.  No, I did not.

          12       Q.  Okay.  Okay.  Now, when the prosecutor was

          13   asking you questions about the people you were

          14   working with, remember you said you thought Mr.

          15   Jackson was at the top?

          16       A.  I don't remember the prosecutor asking me

          17   anything about if I thought Mr. Jackson was at the

          18   top.

          19       Q.  Well, during his questions of you yesterday,

          20   do you remember he sort of tried to emphasize that

          21   Mr. Jackson was at the top of some structure?

          22       A.  I don't remember him bringing Mr. Jackson's

          23   name up at the top of a structure.  I believe he

          24   asked me about the team that I worked with.

          25       Q.  Well, at no time when you were interviewed

          26   by the police or the sheriffs did you ever say Mr.

          27   Jackson was on this team, right?

          28       A.  No, sir, I did not.


                                                                 374






           1       Q.  Because based upon your experience, Mr.

           2   Jackson wasn't on this team, correct?

           3       A.  That's correct, sir.

           4       Q.  You described the team to the Santa Barbara

           5   sheriffs as composed of the following individuals:

           6   Mr. LeGrand, right?

           7       A.  Yes, sir.

           8       Q.  Mark Geragos, right?

           9       A.  Yes, sir.

          10       Q.  Stuart Backerman, right?

          11       A.  Yes, sir.

          12       Q.  Ronald Konitzer?

          13       A.  Yes, sir.

          14       Q.  And Dieter Weizner, right?

          15       A.  Yes, sir.

          16       Q.  You told the Santa Barbara sheriffs there

          17   were also attorneys from the UK, correct?

          18       A.  Yes, sir.

          19       Q.  But you told them you had not spoken with

          20   them or met them, true?

          21       A.  No, I never said I had not spoken with them.

          22   I'm sure I had said I had not met them since they

          23   were in the UK.  But I couldn't say I had not spoken

          24   with them when I had been on conference calls with

          25   them.

          26       Q.  Would it refresh your recollection if I just

          27   show you this page in the report?

          28       A.  Sure.  Absolutely, you can.


                                                                 375






           1           MR. MESEREAU:  Okay.  May I approach, Your

           2   Honor?

           3           THE COURT:  Yes.

           4           MR. MESEREAU:  Thank you.

           5           THE WITNESS:  Oh, yes.  I had not spoken with

           6   them or met them up until the point that Mr. LeGrand

           7   sent me the e-mail welcoming me to the team.  That's

           8   what that's about.

           9       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  Doesn't say that there,

          10   does it?

          11       A.  Yes, that's what that paragraph says.

          12       Q.  Let me just -- for the record --

          13           THE COURT:  Counsel, you've showed her

          14   something to refresh her recollection.

          15           MR. MESEREAU:  Okay.

          16       Q.  Mrs. Kite, early in your interview with the

          17   Santa Barbara sheriffs, you told them you had not

          18   spoken with or met with attorneys from the UK, true?

          19       A.  Yes.

          20       Q.  Okay.  You told the Santa Barbara sheriffs

          21   that you had been brought in by Mr. LeGrand because

          22   Mr. LeGrand was not PR savvy, true?

          23       A.  That's correct.  Yes.

          24       Q.  And you told them there was a huge media

          25   crisis due to the Martin Bashir interview, right?

          26       A.  That's correct.

          27       Q.  You told the Santa Barbara sheriffs you

          28   believed you had the ability to read what was going


                                                                 376






           1   on, in connection with the press, right?

           2       A.  That's correct.

           3       Q.  You thought your connections with the press

           4   were pretty good, correct?

           5       A.  Yes, I did.

           6       Q.  And you told the Santa Barbara sheriffs you

           7   had been involved in public relations for

           8   approximately 20 years?

           9       A.  That's correct, sir.

          10       Q.  And that's correct, right?

          11       A.  Yes, sir.

          12       Q.  Excuse me, it was at the time, right?

          13       A.  Yeah.  I'm a little older now, yes.

          14       Q.  All right.  And you also told them you had

          15   done broadcasting, right?

          16       A.  That's correct, that's correct.

          17       Q.  What broadcasting had you done?

          18       A.  I had done Internet broadcasting.

          19       Q.  Can you please explain what that is?

          20       A.  Sure, absolutely.  It's just like

          21   television, but it's done over the Internet.

          22       Q.  How long had you done that at that time?

          23       A.  At that time, since 1997.  So whatever year

          24   it was that I spoke with the police.  2004.

          25       Q.  Were you doing Internet broadcasting while

          26   you were working with this team?

          27       A.  No, sir, I was not.

          28       Q.  Okay.  Please tell the jury what you were


                                                                 377






           1   doing as president of the Webcasters Alliance?

           2       A.  Well, at that point, we were working toward

           3   legislation for webcasters to help them be allowed

           4   to play music on the Internet.  It was more working

           5   on the political side.

           6       Q.  Now, who was opposing your efforts to play

           7   music on the Internet?

           8       A.  The Recording Industry Association of

           9   America.

          10       Q.  Okay.  And who does that comprise, if you

          11   know?

          12       A.  That comprises the five major labels --

          13   well, there were five at the time.  There's three

          14   now, so....

          15       Q.  And are you saying it's composed of record

          16   labels?

          17       A.  That's correct, sir.

          18       Q.  What record labels were opposing you at that

          19   time?

          20       A.  The ones that belonged to the Recording

          21   Industry Association of America.

          22       Q.  Okay.  Do you know who they were?

          23       A.  I can give you the majors, which would be

          24   Warner Music, Universal, BMG, Sony.

          25       Q.  Okay.  They were opposing you, right?

          26       A.  Yes, sir.

          27       Q.  Now --

          28       A.  They were opposing webcasters.


                                                                 378






           1       Q.  Webcasters.  All right.  Okay.

           2       A.  Yes.

           3       Q.  They were opposing them pretty vigorously,

           4   right?

           5       A.  Yes, sir, they were.

           6       Q.  Do you know why they were opposing you so

           7   vigorously?

           8       A.  Are you asking me personal opinion or are

           9   you asking what they said to the public?  They're

          10   two different things.

          11       Q.  Okay.  They gave -- actually, in the course

          12   of your work to get legislation passed, the record

          13   labels hired lobbyists, didn't they?

          14       A.  Yes, they did.

          15       Q.  And the lobbyists went around to various

          16   politicians opposing what you were trying to do,

          17   correct?

          18       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          19       Q.  To your knowledge, they did that because

          20   they felt it would hurt the music industry, at least

          21   as far as they're concerned, if you could play this

          22   music on the Internet, right?

          23       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          24       Q.  In fact, they made a pitch that they could

          25   lose a lot of money if this music was played on the

          26   Internet, right?

          27       A.  That was their pitch, yes.

          28       Q.  And you felt, and the members of your


                                                                 379






           1   organization felt, that you should be free to take

           2   these songs generated by these music companies and

           3   play them on the Internet, right?

           4       A.  Well, no, sir, not the way that you're

           5   stating it, that's not correct.

           6       Q.  How would you state it?

           7       A.  We felt that Internet broadcasters should

           8   fall under the same realm as traditional terrestrial

           9   radio stations did.  And we believed that Internet

          10   broadcasting was every bit, if not more so, valuable

          11   to performers and artists, especially independent

          12   artists who might not have a chance to be heard on

          13   traditional terrestrial radio stations.

          14       Q.  Now, you certainly knew, while you were

          15   doing this, that Mr. Jackson had business

          16   arrangements with some of these major record labels,

          17   right?

          18       A.  I knew that Mr. Jackson had spoken out

          19   vigorously against the labels earlier.  And I knew

          20   that he also still had an existing contract or

          21   believed that he still had an existing contract with

          22   Sony.

          23       Q.  But your position as president of the

          24   Webcasters Alliance was against Sony, right, at

          25   least as far as that issue was concerned?

          26       A.  Well, I wouldn't market against Sony.  Our

          27   position was to try to explain to the labels that we

          28   could be every bit as friendly to them as a


                                                                 380






           1   terrestrial radio station would.

           2           We certainly didn't want to be against them.

           3   We wanted to help them promote their artists' music

           4   and sell more music.

           5       Q.  You knew Mr. Jackson had a relationship with

           6   Sony at that time, correct?

           7       A.  Yes, sir, I did.

           8       Q.  Did you ever make any effort to advise Mr.

           9   Jackson that you might have a conflict of interest,

          10   if you were taking this position against Sony while

          11   Mr. Jackson was in a business relationship with

          12   Sony?

          13       A.  No, not Mr. Jackson.  But Mr. LeGrand was

          14   aware of it because Mr. LeGrand was working on the

          15   legislation with me.

          16       Q.  Did he tell you there was no problem?

          17       A.  Well, if Mr. LeGrand was working on the

          18   legislation with me and went to the Recording

          19   Industry Association of America with me while he was

          20   also representing Mr. Jackson, I wouldn't have any

          21   reason to think there would be a conflict on my

          22   part.

          23       Q.  So correct me if I'm wrong.  What you're

          24   saying is you never actually discussed a possible

          25   conflict, but you assumed, because Mr. LeGrand hired

          26   you, it must be okay with Mr. Jackson, correct?

          27       A.  Yes, sir, you're absolutely right.

          28       Q.  All right.  All right.  You told the Santa


                                                                 381






           1   Barbara sheriffs that you were contacted by

           2   telephone by Mr. LeGrand regarding your being hired

           3   to do public relations work, correct?

           4       A.  That was not my initial contact with Mr.

           5   LeGrand about doing public relation for Michael

           6   Jackson; nor was that how I found out that Mr.

           7   LeGrand hired me.

           8       Q.  Didn't you tell the Santa Barbara sheriffs

           9   that you had actually spoken with LeGrand in

          10   Washington D.C., but you were contacted by telephone

          11   regarding the public relations work?

          12       A.  I had spoken face to face with Mr. LeGrand

          13   about doing public relations for Mr. Jackson in

          14   Washington D.C.

          15       Q.  Okay.  Would it refresh your recollection if

          16   I just show you the report?

          17       A.  Yes, you can show it to me.  That's fine.

          18           MR. MESEREAU:  May I, Your Honor?  Thank

          19   you.

          20           THE WITNESS:  Yes.

          21       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  Have you had a chance to

          22   look at that report, Ms. Kite?

          23       A.  Yes, I have.

          24       Q.  And is the report accurate or inaccurate?

          25       A.  Yes, I did speak with Mr. LeGrand in

          26   Washington D.C. about working for Mr. Jackson.  But

          27   my recollection is -- as I sit here right now, was

          28   receiving an e-mail from Mr. LeGrand on the morning


                                                                 382






           1   of the 9th of February that said, "Welcome to the

           2   team."

           3       Q.  Okay.  But -- I showed you the report.  Does

           4   that appear to be slightly inaccurate, as far as

           5   you're concerned?

           6       A.  I don't -- I don't know, sir.

           7       Q.  Okay.

           8       A.  I'm telling you, sitting here right now, my

           9   recollection is that I received an e-mail from Mr.

          10   LeGrand --

          11       Q.  Okay.

          12       A.  -- on the morning of the 9th.

          13       Q.  Well, you received an e-mail welcoming you

          14   to the team, correct?

          15       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          16       Q.  But you told the police that you were

          17   contacted by telephone before that about taking the

          18   job, right?

          19       A.  I guess so, sir.

          20       Q.  Okay.  Sound right to you?

          21       A.  I guess, if you say so.

          22       Q.  No, I'm asking you.

          23       A.  Yes.

          24       Q.  All right.  Had you represented any

          25   celebrities before?

          26       A.  Yes, I have.

          27       Q.  Who had you represented?

          28       A.  Well, I'm sure you wouldn't consider him a


                                                                 383






           1   celebrity, but he considers himself one.  Would be

           2   Mr. Sylver, Marshal Sylver, who lives in Las Vegas.

           3       Q.  Who is he?

           4       A.  He's an entertainer.  He also has done a lot

           5   of commercials, infomercials.  And he did, you know,

           6   television.  He was very much into self-hypnosis and

           7   things like that.

           8       Q.  Okay.  Any other celebrities?

           9       A.  I have interviewed celebrities, yes.

          10       Q.  Correct me if I'm wrong.  The question

          11   was --

          12       A.  No, sir.

          13       Q.  The question was, "Did you represent any

          14   other celebrities?"

          15       A.  No, sir, not in the way that I did Mr.

          16   Sylver.

          17       Q.  Really, I think what you're saying, he was

          18   the only celebrity that you had actually represented

          19   as a PR spokesperson --

          20       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          21       Q.  -- before you joined this team?

          22       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          23       Q.  Okay.  Now, you said you were an expert at

          24   media crisis management, right?

          25       A.  Are you asking me what I believe?

          26       Q.  Well, I'm asking you what you said.

          27       A.  Yes, sir.

          28       Q.  Correct me if I'm wrong --


                                                                 384






           1       A.  Yes, sir.

           2       Q.  -- didn't you tell the jury you were an

           3   expert on media crisis management at this point in

           4   time?

           5       A.  Yes, sir.

           6       Q.  All right.  Did you do media crisis

           7   management for Mr. Sylver?

           8       A.  Yes, I did.

           9       Q.  So, actually, you had only done media crisis

          10   management for one person you consider a celebrity

          11   before you joined this team?

          12       A.  For one person that I would consider a

          13   celebrity, yes, sir.

          14       Q.  Okay.  You really weren't very experienced

          15   in handling media crisis management for celebrities,

          16   were you?

          17       A.  Are you asking me what I believe or are you

          18   making a statement?

          19       Q.  I'm asking you to answer a question.  You

          20   really weren't very experienced in handling media

          21   crisis management for celebrities before you joined

          22   this team, right?

          23       A.  I believed I was.

          24       Q.  Because you represented one?

          25       A.  Because I've seen a lot.

          26       Q.  I'm not asking you what you've seen; I'm

          27   asking you what you've done.  Okay?

          28       A.  Yes, I have represented one person that was


                                                                 385






           1   a celebrity, sir.

           2       Q.  Okay.  His name was Sylver?

           3       A.  Marshal Sylver, yes.  S-y-l-v-e-r.

           4       Q.  To your knowledge, is he on television a

           5   lot?

           6       A.  He had been at the time.  I don't believe he

           7   is anymore, no.

           8       Q.  He had been in television in what capacity?

           9       A.  He had produced infomercials.

          10       Q.  Did he appear himself on television?

          11       A.  Yes, sir, he did.

          12       Q.  Where did these info commercials appear, do

          13   you know?

          14       A.  I don't remember.  This was several years

          15   ago, and I don't -- I mean, they appeared in a lot

          16   of markets.

          17       Q.  Okay.  And were you helping him do the

          18   infomercials?

          19       A.  I was helping him promote himself on the

          20   Internet.  He had an Internet radio talk show.  I

          21   was helping schedule other appearances for him on

          22   television shows.  And we were working on another

          23   book for him, and other infomercials that he had in

          24   the future, yes.

          25       Q.  Okay.  And just how long did your

          26   representation of Mr. Sylver go for?

          27       A.  I think it was about a year, but I don't

          28   remember.  This was a while ago.


                                                                 386






           1       Q.  And what year was that?

           2       A.  Maybe around 98 or '99.

           3       Q.  Okay.  So before you joined the team to

           4   handle crisis management for Mr. Jackson, you had

           5   done this kind of work for one person you considered

           6   a celebrity for one year, right?

           7       A.  Yes, sir.

           8       Q.  And you believed that one of your duties was

           9   to help the team put together a plan, correct?

          10       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          11       Q.  And it was supposed to be a plan that would

          12   be consistent with your philosophy of being

          13   proactive, right?

          14       A.  I don't understand your question.

          15       Q.  Okay.  I'll break it down.

          16           Correct me if I'm wrong, you testified that

          17   you wanted to be proactive?

          18       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          19       Q.  With respect to the response to the Bashir

          20   recording, correct?

          21       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          22       Q.  And that also was just your general

          23   philosophy when it comes to dealing with crisis for

          24   celebrities, correct?

          25       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          26       Q.  Had you been proactive with Mr. Sylver?

          27       A.  Yes, sir, I had.

          28       Q.  Okay.  Did he have a crisis?


                                                                 387






           1       A.  Yes, sir, he did.

           2       Q.  And did you feel that you handled the crisis

           3   pretty well?

           4       A.  Did I feel that he handled it very well?

           5       Q.  That you did.

           6       A.  Yes, I felt that I did.  I didn't believe

           7   that he did, but I felt that I did.

           8       Q.  Okay.  Is there any reason why you only

           9   spent a year with him?

          10       A.  Yes, I moved on to other things.

          11       Q.  Like what?

          12       A.  More Internet broadcasting.  I began to get

          13   into more technical aspects of promoting products

          14   and services.

          15       Q.  Okay.  And out of crisis management?

          16       A.  No, never out of it.  But just -- technology

          17   was very fascinating for me, and so I began to do a

          18   lot of productions from conventions in Las Vegas.

          19   Consumer electronic show, the National Association

          20   of Broadcasting.  Those types of things.  Comdex.

          21       Q.  But your proactive philosophy meant what?

          22       A.  Did you say "meant what"?

          23       Q.  Yes, please.

          24       A.  The proactive philosophy meant that I

          25   would -- in terms of taking care of a client, is

          26   that what you're asking me?

          27       Q.  Yes.

          28       A.  That I would assess their assets and


                                                                 388






           1   vulnerabilities and map out a plan for them to be

           2   able to address any issues that might come up in the

           3   future and to be able to promote themselves in the

           4   manner that they aspire to.

           5       Q.  Now, with all due respect, how do you assess

           6   the assets and vulnerabilities of Mr. Jackson if

           7   you've never met him?

           8       A.  Mr. Mesereau, there are millions of people

           9   in the world that have never met Mr. Jackson and

          10   judge him based on what they read in the media.

          11           I believe, for myself, as someone who

          12   handles public relations - and I'm not going to term

          13   myself as an expert in deference to you - what those

          14   people read in the media directly reflects to them

          15   who Mr. Jackson is.  They have never met him either.

          16   So what better way to try to connect with the

          17   public's thinking than to read what's printed in the

          18   media about him and try to counteract it to his

          19   benefit?

          20       Q.  But -- let me repeat my question:  You can't

          21   really know a person if you haven't met them, right?

          22           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection; argumentative.

          23           THE COURT:  Sustained.

          24       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  When you put this plan

          25   together, you didn't know the person called Michael

          26   Jackson at all, right?

          27           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection; asked and

          28   answered numerous times.


                                                                 389






           1           THE COURT:  Asked and answered; sustained.

           2           MR. MESEREAU:  Okay.

           3       Q.  You told the Santa Barbara sheriffs that one

           4   of the goals of the team was to put together a plan

           5   of action, right?

           6       A.  Yes, sir.

           7       Q.  And you said another goal of the team was to

           8   sue Granada, the company that had produced the

           9   Martin Bashir program, correct?

          10       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          11       Q.  And, to your knowledge, Granada was a

          12   British company, right?

          13       A.  Yes, sir, to my knowledge.

          14       Q.  And it was your understanding that there was

          15   a lawsuit going on in England, right?

          16       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          17       Q.  Now, was that lawsuit going on when you were

          18   hired for those six days, or were you discussing

          19   filing a suit?

          20       A.  I believe it had already been filed, sir.

          21       Q.  Okay.  And is that why you were on the phone

          22   call with the British attorneys?

          23       A.  Yes, sir.

          24       Q.  Okay.  And did Mr. LeGrand want you on that

          25   phone call?

          26       A.  Yes, sir, he did.

          27       Q.  Were you mostly reporting to LeGrand at this

          28   period of time?


                                                                 390






           1       A.  No, sir.

           2       Q.  Okay.  Well, you're hired for six days,

           3   right?

           4       A.  Yes, sir.

           5       Q.  And during those six days, you're talking to

           6   various members of the team, right?

           7       A.  Yes, sir.

           8       Q.  Now, what members of the team did you speak

           9   to during those six days you were hired?

          10       A.  You want me to rename them to you?

          11       Q.  Yes, please.

          12       A.  Mr. Backerman.  Mr. Schaffel.  Mr. Konitzer.

          13   Mr. Geragos.  David LeGrand.  And the team in the

          14   UK.  And you if allow me to look at one of these

          15   e-mails, I can read their names off to you, too.

          16   Okay?

          17       Q.  Okay.  Sure.  Thank you.

          18       A.  I'm sorry, I'm looking for the three-page

          19   e-mail here.

          20       Q.  That's all right.  Take your time.  As long

          21   as Judge Melville doesn't mind.

          22       A.  I'm sorry.  This is a thick book.  Do you

          23   have a copy of that three-page e-mail that Gordon

          24   showed me earlier?  Because the names were listed on

          25   there.

          26       Q.  Let me see.  I think I do.

          27           MR. SNEDDON:  It's 43, Gordon.  Page 43.

          28           MR. MESEREAU:  Thank you.


                                                                 391






           1       Q.  All right.  You mentioned Backerman,

           2   Konitzer, Geragos, LeGrand?  And who else?

           3   Schaffel?

           4       A.  Yes, sir.

           5       Q.  And the British lawyers, correct?

           6       A.  Yes, sir, and the British -- and the UK

           7   crisis management team, Bell Yard.

           8       Q.  Okay.  Okay.  And Bell Yard, you had

           9   mentioned one woman's name, right?

          10       A.  Melanie Riley and also Richard.  I believe

          11   Richard's name is on that e-mail too.

          12       Q.  These are all members of the team that you

          13   worked with, right?

          14       A.  Yes, sir.

          15       Q.  For those six days?

          16       A.  Yes, sir.

          17       Q.  Did you have any conference calls where

          18   every member of the team was on the phone?

          19       A.  No, sir, I can't remember that we had any

          20   conference call when every single member of the team

          21   was on the phone.

          22       Q.  Did you have face-to-face conversations with

          23   the various team members?

          24       A.  With Mr. LeGrand.

          25       Q.  Anyone else?

          26       A.  No.  Not that I remember.

          27       Q.  Have you ever personally met Mr. Schaffel?

          28       A.  No, sir, I have not.


                                                                 392






           1       Q.  Have you ever personally met Mr. Konitzer?

           2       A.  No, sir, I have not.

           3       Q.  Never personally met Mr. Geragos?

           4       A.  No, sir, I have not.

           5       Q.  Never personally met any of the British

           6   lawyers?

           7       A.  No, sir, I did not.

           8       Q.  Ever personally met Mr. Backerman?

           9       A.  No, sir, I did not.

          10       Q.  So one member of the team only you had

          11   face-to-face conversations with, right?

          12       A.  Yes, sir, because Mr. LeGrand was in Las

          13   Vegas.

          14       Q.  Okay.  That's where you were?

          15       A.  Yes, sir.

          16       Q.  Okay.  Now, is your office near his?

          17       A.  It was about 20 minutes away.  25 minutes

          18   away.

          19       Q.  Okay.  During those six days, did you have a

          20   lot of meetings with Mr. LeGrand face to face about

          21   the team?

          22       A.  No, I did not.

          23       Q.  How many meetings did you have with Mr.

          24   LeGrand during those six days regarding the team?

          25       A.  Face to face?

          26       Q.  Yes, please.

          27       A.  Just one.

          28       Q.  Did you have a lot of phone calls with Mr.


                                                                 393






           1   LeGrand during those six days?

           2       A.  Yes.

           3       Q.  About the team?

           4       A.  I did.

           5       Q.  How many phone calls do you think you had

           6   with Mr. LeGrand during those six days where you

           7   discussed the team?

           8       A.  I don't understand your question.  Are you

           9   talking about where we discussed the team as -- as

          10   far as it relates to what the team has discussed or

          11   where we discussed the team as far as it relates to

          12   my objections to things that were going on?

          13       Q.  Well, anything what have so far about the

          14   team.  So let me restate the question.

          15       A.  Oh.

          16       Q.  During the six days you were on this team,

          17   you've indicated Mr. LeGrand is the only person you

          18   ever saw face to face, right?

          19       A.  Yes, sir.

          20       Q.  And you've indicated that you had a lot of

          21   phone calls with Mr. LeGrand during those six days

          22   to discuss team business?

          23       A.  Yes, sir.

          24       Q.  Approximately how many phone calls do you

          25   think you had with Mr. LeGrand during those six days

          26   to discuss team business?

          27       A.  Probably more than 50.

          28       Q.  Okay.  How many phone calls did you have


                                                                 394






           1   with Mr. Backerman during those six days, if you can

           2   guess.  Or not guess; if you know.

           3       A.  As few as possible.

           4       Q.  How many?

           5       A.  Maybe seven.  Between five and seven.

           6       Q.  Okay.  Mr. Backerman really was a competitor

           7   of yours, wasn't he?

           8       A.  No, sir.  He wasn't.

           9       Q.  He was in the public relations business, was

          10   he not?

          11       A.  Mr. Backerman was hired as the official

          12   spokesperson.  It was my understanding that Mr.

          13   Backerman was hired as Mr. Jackson's spokesperson.

          14       Q.  Okay.  What was your official title while

          15   you were a member of the team?

          16       A.  I never asked for an official title, sir.

          17       Q.  What did you consider yourself to be?

          18       A.  Just someone who would handle public

          19   relations for Mr. Jackson.

          20       Q.  Okay.  Okay.  Did you ever speak to the

          21   media directly during those six days?

          22       A.  Yes, sir, I did.

          23       Q.  Who did you speak for?

          24       A.  I don't remember.  I couldn't tell you.  I

          25   do remember that I was on a couple of phone calls

          26   with people from the media.  Overflow calls I got

          27   directed to me, or calls that Stuart wasn't

          28   answering and Bell Yard was concerned about, they


                                                                 395






           1   wanted me to speak to them directly.  And I did

           2   speak with Claudia Eaton with NBC.

           3       Q.  And when you spoke to these people, you must

           4   have identified yourself as having some role

           5   involving Mr. Jackson?

           6       A.  I believe I just said I handled public

           7   relations for Mr. Jackson.  I couldn't -- I mean, I

           8   couldn't tell you exactly.  But I am pretty sure

           9   that I didn't identify myself with a grandiose

          10   title.

          11       Q.  Did you have any business cards printed

          12   up --

          13       A.  For Mr. Jackson?

          14       Q.  -- that identified you as a spokesperson for

          15   Mr. Jackson?

          16       A.  No, sir, never.

          17       Q.  Any kind of stationery printed up to

          18   identify yourself as a spokesperson for Mr. Jackson?

          19       A.  No, sir, never.

          20       Q.  Any kind of name tag or anything?

          21       A.  No, sir, never.

          22       Q.  Okay.  Did you have any role in the lawsuit

          23   against Granada?

          24       A.  I don't understand your question.

          25       Q.  Well, you've indicated you were on a phone

          26   conversation with British lawyers, correct?

          27       A.  Yes, sir.

          28       Q.  And that concerned the lawsuit against


                                                                 396






           1   Granada, right?

           2       A.  Yes, sir.

           3       Q.  Did you have any role in that lawsuit, of

           4   any kind?

           5       A.  In how the lawsuit was being portrayed in

           6   the press, yes, I did.

           7       Q.  And what did you do during those six days

           8   about that?

           9       A.  I don't understand your question.  What

          10   actions did I take during those six days, or what

          11   considerations were had?

          12       Q.  Well, wham did you ever do during the six

          13   days you were on the team to effect the Granada

          14   lawsuit?

          15       A.  Spoke with the other members of the team as

          16   far as the public relations were concerned, to put

          17   out information about the lawsuit with Granada.

          18       Q.  Did you actually put out information,

          19   yourself?

          20       A.  No, sir, I did not.

          21       Q.  Did you ever issue any press release

          22   yourself?

          23       A.  No, sir, I wasn't allowed to.

          24       Q.  Ever issue any type of statement anywhere

          25   during those six days?

          26       A.  Not that I can remember, no.

          27       Q.  Did you think during those six days you had

          28   learned enough to really understand that litigation


                                                                 397






           1   in England?

           2       A.  I wasn't trying to understand the litigation

           3   in England, sir.

           4       Q.  Now, you were asked by the Santa Barbara

           5   sheriffs if you had any say-so in the

           6   decision-making of the team.  And you said, "Yes and

           7   no."  Do you remember that?

           8       A.  Yes, I did.

           9       Q.  And you reviewed this report before you came

          10   in to testify today, right?

          11       A.  Yes, sir, I did.

          12       Q.  When did you last review it?

          13       A.  I don't know.  It was probably about a week

          14   or so ago.

          15       Q.  Do you have a copy in your possession?

          16       A.  No, sir, I don't.

          17       Q.  Were you sent a copy and given an

          18   opportunity to read it?

          19       A.  Yes, sir.

          20       Q.  Then did you have to return the copy?

          21       A.  No, sir, I didn't.

          22       Q.  Where did the copy go; do you know?

          23       A.  Yes, it's in Louisiana.  I didn't bring it

          24   with me.

          25       Q.  Someone sent you the police report in

          26   Louisiana?

          27       A.  Yes, sir.

          28       Q.  Do you know who did that?


                                                                 398






           1       A.  No, sir, I don't.

           2       Q.  Did Mr. Auchincloss do that?

           3       A.  I'm not --

           4           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection; asked and

           5   answered.

           6           THE COURT:  Sustained.

           7       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  Have you shown that report

           8   to anyone?

           9       A.  No, sir, I have not.

          10       Q.  All right.  Have you discussed your

          11   testimony today with anyone before you came in?

          12       A.  I don't understand your question.  The

          13   testimony that I'm giving right now?

          14       Q.  Yes.

          15       A.  No, sir, I have not.

          16       Q.  You haven't discussed it with anyone before

          17   testifying today?

          18       A.  I don't understand you.  Are you asking if I

          19   spoke with Mr. Auchincloss?  You need to ask me

          20   specifically, because I don't understand your term

          21   of "anyone."

          22       Q.  You don't know what "anyone" means?

          23       A.  I do know what "anyone" means, but I don't

          24   know what you mean by -- when you say it.

          25       Q.  Let me break it down slowly.

          26       A.  Okay.

          27       Q.  Did you discuss what you were going to say

          28   in court today with anyone before you came in and


                                                                 399






           1   testified?

           2       A.  No one had told me what to say in court.

           3   But Gordon did tell me in general what to expect of

           4   the questions from him.

           5       Q.  How long was your meeting with Gordon?

           6       A.  Yesterday, when I was here?

           7       Q.  Yes.

           8       A.  You didn't give him much time.  I don't

           9   know, maybe ten minutes.  I don't remember.  I don't

          10   remember.

          11       Q.  How long was your prior meeting with Gordon?

          12       A.  The night before?

          13       Q.  Yes.

          14       A.  A couple of hours.

          15       Q.  And in a couple of hours with Gordon, the

          16   night before, you never discussed what you were

          17   going to say in this courtroom?

          18       A.  No.  Mr. -- Gordon told me generally what

          19   questions he was going to ask me.

          20       Q.  Okay.

          21       A.  He said that it would be about the same type

          22   of things that he went over with me in the grand

          23   jury testimony, and that was it.

          24       Q.  Okay.  So why did it last two hours?

          25       A.  Well, I think probably because I had a lot

          26   of questions for him also.

          27       Q.  So you were discussing what you were going

          28   to say today, right?


                                                                 400






           1       A.  No.  That doesn't mean that I was trying to

           2   ask him questions about what we were going to

           3   discuss today.  I was very curious about this whole

           4   process and the process of the lawsuit.

           5       Q.  Did you ever tell Mr. Auchincloss what you

           6   intended to say in this courtroom during that

           7   meeting that lasted a number of hours the day before

           8   yesterday?

           9       A.  No, sir, I don't remember that I ever told

          10   him what I intended to say during any of my

          11   testimony.

          12       Q.  So, Prosecutor Auchincloss told you what he

          13   was going to ask you, and you never commented on

          14   what you were going to say at any time during that

          15   meeting which lasted a couple of hours, right?

          16       A.  I wouldn't have needed to, sir, because he

          17   told me basically it was the same questions that he

          18   had already asked me in the grand jury testimony,

          19   and I knew what my answers were.

          20       Q.  So why did it take so long, if you know?

          21       A.  Because, like I said, I was curious about

          22   the whole process of the lawsuit.  I was asking

          23   questions about what the courtroom looked like, and

          24   that type of thing.

          25       Q.  Okay.  So you didn't ever respond to any of

          26   his questions, true?

          27       A.  Any of what questions?

          28       Q.  When Prosecutor Auchincloss met with you and


                                                                 401






           1   I said, "I'm going to ask you," whatever the

           2   question was, you just didn't comment, right?

           3       A.  There was no need for me, sir, because he

           4   said it would be basically the same questions that

           5   he asked me in my grand jury testimony.

           6           He didn't say that he was going to ask me

           7   anything different, and he didn't say that it was

           8   going to deviate.

           9       Q.  Well, let's take the timing.  Prosecutor

          10   Auchincloss meets with you for a couple of hours.

          11   He tells you, "I'm going to ask you the same

          12   questions I asked you for the grand jury," which

          13   takes about five seconds.  What else did you talk

          14   about?

          15           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection; this is

          16   argument.

          17           THE COURT:  Sustained.

          18       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  Ms. Kite, you did discuss

          19   with Prosecutor Auchincloss things you were going to

          20   say in court today, didn't you?

          21           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection; these questions

          22   have been asked and answered numerous times.

          23           THE COURT:  Sustained.

          24       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  How many conference calls

          25   with attorneys from the United Kingdom did you

          26   have -- excuse me.  Let me rephrase that.

          27           How many conference calls did you

          28   participate in with attorneys from the UK during the


                                                                 402






           1   six days you were hired?

           2       A.  With just the attorneys, or with the Bell

           3   Yard also?

           4       Q.  Just with the attorneys.

           5       A.  I don't know.  Maybe five or six.  One a

           6   day.

           7       Q.  And how many conference calls did you have

           8   with other people employed in the United Kingdom

           9   during those six days?

          10       A.  At least double or triple that, because I

          11   talked to Bell Yard several times a day.

          12       Q.  Okay.  Now, were you giving Bell Yard your

          13   ideas about public relations issues in England?

          14       A.  Is your question was I giving Bell Yard

          15   information about how I felt they should handle

          16   public relations issues in England?  No, sir --

          17       Q.  Sure.

          18       A.  -- I did not.

          19       Q.  Were they calling you for advice on what to

          20   do in England?

          21       A.  No.  They weren't calling me for advice on

          22   what to do in England.  We were talking together to

          23   be able to coordinate the same type of public

          24   relations effort between the United Kingdom and the

          25   United States.

          26       Q.  Was it your understanding that Bell Yard was

          27   issuing press releases in England during those six

          28   days?


                                                                 403






           1       A.  I believe they issued one or two, but I

           2   don't know how many.  They -- I don't know.

           3       Q.  Did you ever see the one or two statements

           4   that they issued?

           5       A.  Yes, I believe I did.

           6       Q.  Did they fax them to you?

           7       A.  E-mailed them to me, I believe.

           8       Q.  Did they ask you for your thoughts on the

           9   content?

          10       A.  Yes, sir.

          11       Q.  Did you give them the thoughts on the

          12   content?

          13       A.  Yes, sir.

          14       Q.  Did you feel they followed your advice?

          15       A.  Yes, sir.

          16       Q.  So you never had any dispute with Bell Yard

          17   in England with respect to public relations,

          18   correct?

          19       A.  No, sir.  Bell Yard and I agreed very much

          20   on how we felt that the public relations effort

          21   should be handled for Mr. Jackson.

          22       Q.  Now, correct me if I'm wrong, you've

          23   testified that you thought these team members -- not

          24   including Mr. Jackson, because he wasn't on the

          25   team -- these team members overruled your ability to

          26   be proactive; is that correct?

          27       A.  Yes, sir.  That's correct.

          28       Q.  But you felt they didn't overrule Bell


                                                                 404






           1   Yard's efforts to be proactive, correct?

           2       A.  No, sir, that's not correct.  I believed

           3   that they did overrule Bell Yard also.

           4       Q.  Did you think the statements that you saw

           5   issued by Bell Yard during those six days were

           6   proactive?

           7       A.  There was an issue with Bell Yard when I was

           8   brought on.

           9       Q.  And you had an issue with them?

          10       A.  No, there was an issue within the team with

          11   Bell Yard when I was brought on.

          12       Q.  Here's what I'm getting at:  And if I

          13   misstate something, just tell me.

          14       A.  Uh-huh.

          15       Q.  You told the jury you were overruled in your

          16   desire to make a public statement on behalf of the

          17   team, right?

          18       A.  Okay.  Then I understand where you're going.

          19   And let me answer you this way:  The press releases

          20   that were put out by Bell Yard during that time

          21   mainly had to do with the lawsuit against Granada,

          22   and didn't at all affect the crisis issues that I

          23   felt were negatively impacting Mr. Jackson's

          24   reputation.

          25       Q.  But the crisis involving Bell Yard was a

          26   crisis concerning the Bashir program, right?

          27       A.  It was concerning the program itself.  It

          28   didn't concern the attacks that were being launched


                                                                 405






           1   against Mr. Jackson about everything else.

           2       Q.  The lawsuit was filed by attorneys for Mr.

           3   Jackson, true?

           4       A.  Yes, that's correct, sir.

           5       Q.  And Mr. Bashir was sued, correct?

           6       A.  I don't remember, sir.  I believe so.

           7       Q.  And Granada was the company that produced

           8   the Bashir show, correct?

           9       A.  Yes, sir.

          10       Q.  To your knowledge, the lawsuit had to do

          11   with their not meeting their obligations --

          12       A.  To my --

          13       Q.  -- to Mr. Jackson, right?

          14       A.  To my knowledge, I believed that the lawsuit

          15   was launched to stop the distribution of additional

          16   footage.  Not to attack the integrity of the

          17   lawsuit, or the integrity of the documentary.

          18       Q.  Did you ever read any of the legal documents

          19   filed in the lawsuit?

          20       A.  I don't remember, sir.  I don't remember.

          21       Q.  After your conference calls with the

          22   attorneys in England, did anyone ever send you

          23   copies of the legal documents that were filed in

          24   that lawsuit, if you remember?

          25       A.  I don't remember if there were copies that

          26   were sent to me.  But I do believe that there were

          27   snippets of issues that needed to be addressed or

          28   things that were going to be put into the lawsuit,


                                                                 406






           1   yes.

           2       Q.  Okay.  When were you first -- let me strike

           3   that.

           4           Did you have a conference call with those

           5   attorneys the first day you were hired?

           6       A.  I don't remember.  I remember having several

           7   calls, but I don't remember if it was the attorneys

           8   that were on the call or not.  That short six-day

           9   period of time, as you classify it, was basically 24

          10   hours a day for me, and there was so much that

          11   happened.  And I couldn't tell you exactly if there

          12   was anything that first day.

          13       Q.  Okay.  Now, you told the Santa Barbara

          14   sheriffs that you were on a conference call with Mr.

          15   Konitzer and Mr. Geragos, correct?

          16       A.  Yes, that's correct.

          17       Q.  And you told the Santa Barbara sheriffs you

          18   were on two conference calls to the United Kingdom

          19   that included Konitzer and Geragos, right?

          20       A.  Yes.

          21       Q.  Did you believe you were reporting to Mr.

          22   Geragos?

          23       A.  I believed that Mr. Geragos was one of the

          24   persons that I did speak to.  But as far as the

          25   hierarchy is concerned, Mr. Konitzer told me that

          26   Mr. Schaffel was in charge of public relations for

          27   Michael Jackson.  There were times that Mr. Geragos

          28   called me and spoke to me about certain issues


                                                                 407






           1   regarding public relations; there was times that Mr.

           2   Konitzer called me; and there was times that I spoke

           3   with Mr. Schaffel or I spoke with Mr. LeGrand.  So,

           4   I mean, there wasn't a direct pecking order that I

           5   had to report to.  It depended on what it was that

           6   they were looking for.

           7       Q.  Well, was it your understanding, if Mr.

           8   Geragos asked you to do something, that you were

           9   supposed to do it?

          10       A.  Yes.

          11       Q.  Was it your understanding, if Mr. Konitzer

          12   asked you to do something, that you were supposed to

          13   do it?

          14       A.  Generally, if Mr. Konitzer asked me to do

          15   something, I called Mr. LeGrand.

          16       Q.  Okay.  Let me just rephrase the question.

          17   Was it your understanding -- and either it was or it

          18   wasn't -- that you were supposed to do what Mr.

          19   Konitzer asked you to do?

          20       A.  Yes.

          21       Q.  Okay.  Was it your understanding that,

          22   during those six days, you were supposed to do what

          23   Mr. Schaffel asked you to do?

          24       A.  Yes, sir.

          25       Q.  Was it your understanding that you were

          26   supposed to do whatever Mr. Backerman asked you to

          27   do?

          28       A.  No, sir, never.


                                                                 408






           1       Q.  Did you ever feel you reported to Backerman?

           2       A.  No, sir, I did not.

           3       Q.  Did you ever try to replace Mr. Backerman?

           4       A.  No, sir, I did not.

           5       Q.  Okay.  Did you think you were supposed to do

           6   what the British lawyers asked you to do during

           7   those six days?

           8       A.  The British lawyers never asked me to do

           9   anything.  We -- again, on the conference calls that

          10   we had, we were discussing how the public relations

          11   effort between the UK and the United States would

          12   mesh together, so there was never a directive from

          13   the British lawyers.  It was more of a summation of

          14   the day's events and how they would be handled in

          15   the press.

          16       Q.  Okay.  Now, a sheet of names and phone

          17   numbers that you were presented by the prosecutor is

          18   Exhibit 410, right?

          19       A.  Yes, I believe so.

          20       Q.  Do you have that in front of you?

          21       A.  Yes, sir.

          22       Q.  Now, is that a sheet that you used during

          23   your work?

          24       A.  It may -- they sent me several different

          25   iterations of contact numbers.  This isn't anything

          26   that was ever typed up that I saw.

          27       Q.  Okay.  So when did you first see this

          28   document?


                                                                 409






           1       A.  I don't remember when I first saw it.

           2       Q.  Did the prosecutor show it to you?

           3       A.  They very well may have.  I don't remember.

           4       Q.  Well, before you came into court to testify

           5   and began to answer questions from Prosecutor

           6   Auchincloss, have you ever seen the document?

           7           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection; asked and

           8   answered.

           9           THE COURT:  Overruled.

          10           THE WITNESS:  I may have.  I just don't

          11   remember.  There was several different iterations of

          12   documents that were sent, of e-mails that were sent

          13   to me with names and phone numbers on them.  This

          14   may have been one of the iterations.  I don't

          15   remember.

          16       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  When you met with

          17   Prosecutor Auchincloss, did he ever show you this

          18   document and say he was going to ask you about names

          19   and numbers on the document?

          20       A.  No, sir, he did not.

          21       Q.  To your knowledge, is the first time you

          22   ever saw this thing when you were shown it in court?

          23       A.  To my knowledge, yes.

          24       Q.  Okay.  Well, what makes me curious is your

          25   own name and number is on that document, right?

          26           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection to the form of

          27   the question.

          28           THE COURT:  Sustained.


                                                                 410






           1       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  You didn't have a document

           2   of phone numbers and names that had your own on it,

           3   did you?

           4       A.  Yes, sir, the iterations of information that

           5   I was sent contained everyone's phone number.  We

           6   would include mine too.

           7       Q.  And were you sent Exhibit 410?

           8       A.  I don't know, sir.  I was sent several

           9   iterations.

          10       Q.  Now, there's a number for Gavin Arvizo on

          11   that document.  Do you see that?

          12       A.  Yes, sir, I do.

          13       Q.  Did you have a document with Gavin Arvizo's

          14   number?

          15       A.  I don't remember, sir.  I was sent several

          16   iterations of documents.  I don't remember.

          17       Q.  Well, you certainly know who Gavin Arvizo

          18   is, right?

          19       A.  Yes, sir, I do.

          20       Q.  And if you had been carrying around a

          21   document with his name and number, you'd probably

          22   remember that, wouldn't you?

          23       A.  I didn't carry it around.  It came to me in

          24   an e-mail and I only accessed the numbers that I

          25   needed.

          26       Q.  Okay.  But certainly you're testifying that

          27   Mr. Auchincloss didn't go over this document before

          28   you testified?


                                                                 411






           1       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

           2       Q.  The questions just came out fresh and cold,

           3   as far as you're concerned, right?

           4       A.  As far as I'm concerned, yes, sir.

           5           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection.  Argumentative;

           6   asked and answered.

           7           MR. MESEREAU:  I withdraw it.

           8       Q.  You told the Santa Barbara sheriffs that Mr.

           9   Geragos had the final say-so on everything, did you

          10   not?

          11       A.  I told the Santa Barbara sheriffs that I was

          12   told that Mr. Geragos had the final say-so, yes,

          13   sir, I did.

          14       Q.  And who told you that Mr. Geragos had the

          15   final say-so on everything?

          16       A.  Mr. LeGrand and Mr. Konitzer.

          17       Q.  And during those six days you were employed,

          18   you operated with the understanding that essentially

          19   the buck stopped with Mr. Geragos, right?

          20       A.  Yes.

          21       Q.  Okay.  You told the Santa Barbara sheriffs

          22   that on major things, you were to answer to

          23   Schaffel, right?

          24       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          25       Q.  And did you answer to Schaffel during those

          26   six days?

          27       A.  Yes, sir, I did.

          28       Q.  Okay.  How many times do you think you spoke


                                                                 412






           1   to Schaffel on the phone during those six days?

           2       A.  It would be very hard for me to estimate.

           3   Maybe ten, maybe 15.

           4       Q.  Okay.  And was it your understanding that

           5   Mr. Schaffel was in charge of Mr. Jackson's public

           6   relations?

           7       A.  That's what Mr. Konitzer told me, yes, sir.

           8       Q.  Konitzer told you that?

           9       A.  Yes, sir, he did.

          10       Q.  And obviously Mr. Jackson never told you

          11   that?

          12       A.  No, sir, he did not.  I never spoke to Mr.

          13   Jackson.

          14       Q.  Okay.  You told the Santa Barbara sheriffs

          15   that you thought Mr. Schaffel answered to Konitzer,

          16   right?

          17       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          18       Q.  And why did you think that?

          19       A.  Why did I think that?

          20       Q.  Yes.

          21       A.  Because Mr. Konitzer told me to -- that Mr.

          22   Schaffel was in charge of Michael Jackson's public

          23   relations.  And obviously Mr. Schaffel would have to

          24   answer to someone and to me.  That someone would be

          25   Mr. Konitzer.

          26       Q.  Okay.  When did you last talk to Mr.

          27   Schaffel?

          28       A.  It was either the 13th or the 14th of


                                                                 413






           1   February.  I don't remember.

           2       Q.  And that would be that year?

           3       A.  Yes, sir.

           4       Q.  Have you talked to Mr. Schaffel since you

           5   were terminated?

           6       A.  No, sir.

           7       Q.  Have you talked to Mr. Konitzer since you

           8   were terminated?

           9       A.  No, sir.

          10       Q.  Have you talked to Mr. Geragos since you

          11   were terminated?

          12       A.  Yes, sir.

          13       Q.  When did you last talk to Mr. Geragos?

          14       A.  I don't remember.

          15       Q.  Can you tell me approximately when it was?

          16       A.  I don't remember.

          17       Q.  Was it this year?

          18       A.  No, sir.

          19       Q.  Was it last year?

          20       A.  No, sir.

          21       Q.  Was it the year before last, if you know?

          22       A.  It would have probably been shortly after I

          23   was terminated.  Maybe, you know, a few days or

          24   something.  And then -- I don't remember.

          25       Q.  Do you consider yourself to be on good terms

          26   with Mr. Geragos?

          27       A.  I wouldn't consider myself either way, to be

          28   on any terms with Mr. Geragos.


                                                                 414






           1       Q.  Okay.  When did you last talk to Mr.

           2   Backerman?

           3       A.  On the 14th of February.

           4       Q.  Okay.  So you've not been in touch with him

           5   since you were terminated?

           6       A.  No, sir.

           7       Q.  Now, did you include someone named Dieter

           8   Weizner as a member of the team?

           9       A.  I never met Dieter, sir.

          10       Q.  Did you ever talk to him on the phone?

          11       A.  No, sir, I never did.

          12       Q.  So no contact with him ever?

          13       A.  Never.

          14       Q.  Okay.  Now, you told the Santa Barbara

          15   sheriffs that you knew that Konitzer had obtained a

          16   power of attorney over Michael Jackson, true?

          17       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          18       Q.  How did you know that Konitzer had obtained

          19   a power of attorney on behalf of Michael Jackson?

          20           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection.  Hearsay,

          21   unless this witness has personal knowledge.

          22           MR. MESEREAU:  I asked how she learned, Your

          23   Honor.  State of mind.

          24           THE COURT:  The objection is overruled.

          25           You may answer the question.  Do you want it

          26   read back?

          27           THE WITNESS:  No.

          28           Mr. LeGrand told me.


                                                                 415






           1       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  Okay.  And approximately

           2   when did he tell you that Konitzer had gotten a

           3   power of attorney over Michael Jackson?

           4           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Same objection.

           5           THE COURT:  Overruled.

           6           THE WITNESS:  Are you asking me when he

           7   actually physically signed the power of attorney or

           8   when Mr. LeGrand told me that it was going to be

           9   signed?

          10       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  I'm asking you when you

          11   learned that Konitzer was going to have a power of

          12   attorney over Michael Jackson.

          13       A.  At the end of January.

          14       Q.  Okay.  When you first heard about it, was it

          15   your understanding that it had already been signed

          16   or was it about to be signed?

          17       A.  It was about to be signed.

          18       Q.  Okay.  And do you remember why -- excuse me.

          19   Let me rephrase.

          20           In what context did Mr. LeGrand discuss that

          21   with you, if you know?  Why did it come up?

          22       A.  David had been telling me for a while that

          23   he was preparing to take on a new client, that he

          24   had been working on it for a number of months.  I

          25   think it was probably close to a year.  And he was

          26   excited about it.  He never told me who the client

          27   was until he told me about the power of attorney and

          28   who the client was.


                                                                 416






           1       Q.  And was it your understanding that David

           2   LeGrand prepared that power of attorney?

           3       A.  Yes, it was.

           4       Q.  Okay.  Did you ever learn that David LeGrand

           5   had commenced an investigation of Schaffel,

           6   Konitzer, Dieter, Geragos, Malnik?

           7       A.  I asked Mr. LeGrand to start an

           8   investigation.

           9       Q.  And you did that because you thought they

          10   were stealing from Michael Jackson, correct?

          11           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection; argumentative.

          12           THE COURT:  Overruled.

          13           THE WITNESS:  No, sir.  I did that because I

          14   couldn't understand why they would allow Mr.

          15   Jackson's reputation to fall into total ruin in the

          16   press.

          17       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  Well, didn't you tell the

          18   police that you had learned that Konitzer used the

          19   power of attorney to embezzle $980,000 from Michael

          20   Jackson?

          21       A.  I told --

          22           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection.  Hearsay;

          23   multiple hearsay.

          24           THE COURT:  Overruled.

          25           You may answer.

          26           THE WITNESS:  I told the police that Mr.

          27   LeGrand told me that.

          28       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  Well, correct me if I'm


                                                                 417






           1   wrong, didn't you say to the Santa Barbara sheriffs

           2   Konitzer had power of attorney and he embezzled

           3   $980,000 from Michael Jackson?

           4       A.  Yes, sir, that was my statement.  But

           5   your're phrasing it in a way that I didn't say it.

           6   I did say that he did have power of attorney, and he

           7   embezzled $980,000, but that was told to me by Mr.

           8   LeGrand.  I had no personal knowledge of Mr.

           9   Konitzer take the money from Mr. Jackson.

          10       Q.  So your source was strictly David LeGrand,

          11   right?

          12       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          13       Q.  Do you know approximately when he told you

          14   that Konitzer had used that power of attorney to

          15   embezzle $980,000 from Mr. Jackson?

          16       A.  It was somewhere in the beginning of March.

          17   But I don't remember the exact date.

          18       Q.  So that was after you were terminated,

          19   right?

          20       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          21       Q.  Now, after you were terminated, you --

          22           THE COURT:  Counsel, can we take our break?

          23           MR. MESEREAU:  Yes, Your Honor.

          24           (Recess taken.)

          25           THE COURT:  You may proceed.

          26           MR. MESEREAU:  Thank you, Your Honor.  It's

          27   almost noontime.

          28       Q.  Okay.  When you had your interview with the


                                                                 418






           1   Santa Barbara sheriffs, you were asked by Detective

           2   Zelis if you knew if Michael Jackson was aware of

           3   what the team was doing, do you remember that?

           4       A.  Yes, sir, I do.

           5       Q.  And you told him you had no idea whether

           6   Michael knew anything about it, right?

           7           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection, Your Honor.

           8   Calls for speculation; no foundation.

           9           THE COURT:  Overruled.  You may answer.

          10           THE WITNESS:  As you said, I have never

          11   talked to Michael Jackson.

          12       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  But you told Detective

          13   Zelis you had no idea whether Michael Jackson knew

          14   what this team was doing, correct

          15       A.  That's correct.  Because I never spoke with

          16   Mr. Jackson.

          17       Q.  Okay.  You tried to speak to him, didn't

          18   you?

          19       A.  No, sir.

          20       Q.  Didn't you tell the Santa Barbara sheriffs

          21   that on one occasion you asked Mr. Konitzer to get

          22   Michael Jackson on the phone to find out about the

          23   contract with Martin Bashir, right?

          24       A.  No, sir, that wasn't me that asked to get

          25   Michael Jackson on the phone.  That was an attorney

          26   from the UK.  That's -- that's the incident that I

          27   was relating to the police.

          28       Q.  Didn't you tell the police - correct me if


                                                                 419






           1   I'm wrong - you asked Konitzer to get Michael

           2   Jackson on the phone to find out about the contract

           3   concerning the Bashir interview, and you told him

           4   that Konitzer would say, "He's busy," referring to

           5   Jackson, correct?

           6       A.  No, sir, I don't remember saying that.

           7       Q.  Would it refresh your recollection if I show

           8   you the report?

           9       A.  You can show me the report.  But the

          10   incident that you're talking about, I remember very

          11   vividly.  And it didn't have anything to do with me

          12   telling Mr. Konitzer to get Mr. Jackson on the

          13   phone.  It was an attorney from the UK who was very

          14   upset at the lack of responsiveness from Mr. Jackson

          15   about his not being on these conference calls that

          16   he felt were extremely important.

          17       Q.  You actually said you tried to get him on

          18   the phone and the attorney in Britain tried to get

          19   him on the phone, and you both failed, correct?

          20       A.  No, sir, I don't remember saying I tried --

          21   I didn't have a phone number for Mr. Jackson.  How

          22   would I try to get him on the phone?

          23       Q.  Well, you asked Mr. Konitzer to put him on

          24   the phone, didn't you?

          25           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection; argumentative.

          26       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  Would it refresh your

          27   recollection if I show you the report?

          28       A.  You can --


                                                                 420






           1           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection.  He's asked the

           2   witness if it would refresh her recollection, and

           3   she said it would not.

           4           THE COURT:  No, actually she did say that,

           5   but she said something else, too.

           6           Would it refresh your recollection to be

           7   shown that report?

           8           THE WITNESS:  You can show me the report,

           9   but I remember the incident very specifically.  And

          10   I would never tell Mr. Konitzer to get Mr. Jackson

          11   on the phone.

          12           MR. MESEREAU:  May I approach, Your Honor?

          13           THE COURT:  No, she says that she remembers

          14   specifically.

          15       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  In other words, if the

          16   report of the police officer, which I remind you was

          17   recorded, says you told them, "I asked Mr. Konitzer

          18   to get Mr. Jackson on the phone, and he told me he

          19   was busy," that would be wrong?

          20           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection; argumentative.

          21           THE COURT:  Sustained.

          22       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  Did you tell the Santa

          23   Barbara sheriffs that you believed Konitzer,

          24   Schaffel and Weizner created an environment that

          25   allowed Jackson to pursue his other interests while

          26   they ran the day-to-day operation of his business

          27   matters?

          28       A.  Yes, sir, I did.


                                                                 421






           1       Q.  Did you ever ask any member of the team at

           2   any time if you could get Mr. Jackson on the phone?

           3       A.  Not to my knowledge, sir, no.

           4       Q.  You were asked by the Santa Barbara sheriffs

           5   if you had ever met Dr. Farshshian, correct?

           6       A.  Yes, sir, that's right.

           7       Q.  And you said you had not?

           8       A.  No, sir, I had not.

           9       Q.  You also told him you had never met the

          10   Arvizo family, right?

          11       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          12       Q.  Okay.  And you've described what Schaffel

          13   told you had happened with Janet Arvizo at the

          14   ranch, right?

          15       A.  Yes, sir.

          16       Q.  But your knowledge of that only came from

          17   Schaffel, correct?

          18       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          19       Q.  And it goes without saying, Mr. Jackson was

          20   not involved in that conversation, correct?

          21       A.  That's correct, sir.

          22       Q.  Schaffel also told you that Janet Arvizo was

          23   going to sell her story to a British tabloid,

          24   correct?

          25           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection; hearsay.

          26           THE COURT:  Sustained.

          27       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  Did you tell the police

          28   that Schaffel told you Janet was selling a story to


                                                                 422






           1   a British tabloid?

           2           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Same objection.

           3           THE COURT:  Sustained.

           4       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  As part of your work

           5   during those six days, you had to consider what to

           6   do if Ms. Arvizo sold a story to a British tabloid,

           7   right?

           8       A.  At that -- are you asking me at that point,

           9   or are you asking me before that?

          10       Q.  I'm not talking about any point.  I'm asking

          11   you if you told the Santa Barbara sheriffs that you

          12   were considering what to do if Janet Arvizo sold her

          13   story to a British tabloid.

          14       A.  I don't remember that.

          15       Q.  Would it refresh your recollection if I show

          16   you the report?

          17       A.  Absolutely, sure.

          18           MR. MESEREAU:  May I show her the report?

          19           THE COURT:  You may.

          20           THE WITNESS: That's what I said.

          21       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  Have you had a chance to

          22   look at your report?

          23       A.  Yes, sir.

          24       Q.  Does it refresh your recollection about that

          25   issue?

          26       A.  Yes, it does.

          27       Q.  Okay.  In the course of your duties during

          28   those six days, did you take into consideration what


                                                                 423






           1   to do if and when Janet Arvizo sold her story to a

           2   British tabloid?

           3       A.  I didn't know what story Miss Arvizo could

           4   sell to a British tabloid.

           5       Q.  Did you ever, during those six days, as part

           6   of your work, discuss the possibility of Ms. Arvizo

           7   selling a story to a British tabloid with any member

           8   of the team?

           9       A.  No, because no one would go over the crisis

          10   plan with me.  I couldn't discuss anything with

          11   anyone because they all had different agendas.

          12       Q.  So you never discussed it with Schaffel,

          13   correct?

          14       A.  I never discussed what the team would do if

          15   Miss Arvizo sold a story to the British tabloids,

          16   no.

          17       Q.  Did you ever tell the Santa Barbara sheriffs

          18   that Schaffel told you he was going to fax you a

          19   letter about that?

          20       A.  Yes, sir, I certainly did.

          21       Q.  And did you tell them anything else about

          22   that issue?

          23       A.  That I never received a letter from Mr.

          24   Schaffel.

          25       Q.  But you told them Schaffel told you he was

          26   going to fax you a letter about Janet Arvizo selling

          27   a story to the tabloids; is that correct?

          28       A.  No, sir, that's not what I said.


                                                                 424






           1           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection, hearsay.

           2           THE WITNESS:  That's not what I said.

           3       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  What did you say?

           4           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  I have an objection

           5   pending.

           6           THE COURT:  Just a moment.

           7           The objection's sustained.

           8       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  Did you ever discuss with

           9   the Santa Barbara sheriffs that Schaffel had told

          10   you he was concerned that Janet Arvizo was going to

          11   make a deal with the British tabloids?

          12           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Same objection.

          13           THE COURT:  Overruled.

          14           THE WITNESS:  Yes, sir, I did.

          15       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  Okay.  Now, the only

          16   knowledge you ever had about the Arvizos leaving the

          17   ranch was through Schaffel, right?

          18       A.  No, I discussed it later in the day with Mr.

          19   Konitzer.

          20       Q.  Okay.  But you first learned about it

          21   through Schaffel, didn't you?

          22       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          23       Q.  Okay.  And did you discuss it with Schaffel

          24   and Konitzer?

          25       A.  Not at the same time, sir.

          26       Q.  At any time?

          27       A.  On separate occasions on the 13th, yes.

          28       Q.  Okay.  And at some point you learned the


                                                                 425






           1   Arvizo family had returned to the ranch, right?

           2       A.  I was told that.

           3       Q.  Was that by Schaffel?

           4       A.  Yes.

           5       Q.  Okay.  And you testified that Schaffel told

           6   you "the situation is contained," correct?

           7       A.  Had been contained, yes.

           8       Q.  Okay.  Is that after he told you the Arvizos

           9   had returned to the ranch?

          10       A.  No, sir, that was in the same conversation.

          11       Q.  So he told you they're back at the ranch,

          12   the situation's contained; is that right?

          13       A.  I think he told me it the other way around,

          14   but, yes, that's pretty much the way I remember it.

          15       Q.  And was that after Schaffel told you that he

          16   thought Janet Arvizo was selling a story to the

          17   British tabloids?

          18       A.  Yes, sir, it was.

          19       Q.  Okay.  Okay.  You told the police the first

          20   thing you wanted to do was laugh, because it sounded

          21   like something out of a bad "B" movie, correct?

          22       A.  Yes, I did, sir.

          23       Q.  You told the police you remember these dates

          24   because you had a rental car you were driving,

          25   right?

          26       A.  That's correct.

          27       Q.  And you had to renew the rental, the weekly

          28   rental agreement, right?


                                                                 426






           1       A.  That's correct.

           2       Q.  You told them the rental office opened at

           3   7:30 a.m., and that was the time you received the

           4   call on your cellular phone from Schaffel, correct?

           5       A.  It was -- I received the call on my phone

           6   from Schaffel as I was driving into the parking

           7   structure --

           8       Q.  Okay.

           9       A.  -- yes.

          10       Q.  Now, the next day is when you flew from Las

          11   Vegas to Hollywood to film the show Access

          12   Hollywood, right?

          13       A.  That's correct, sir.

          14       Q.  And you told Detective Zelis you never asked

          15   Schaffel what the story was that Janet was

          16   supposedly going to sell to the British tabloids,

          17   right?

          18       A.  That's correct.

          19       Q.  And after Schaffel told you "The situation

          20   is contained," you called David LeGrand, correct?

          21       A.  Later that day, yes.

          22       Q.  Okay.  And you were concerned about what

          23   Schaffel had told you, true?

          24       A.  Yes, that's correct.

          25       Q.  You told David LeGrand you were concerned

          26   about Schaffel, Backerman, Konitzer and Weizner,

          27   correct?

          28       A.  I don't think I said Weizner, because I


                                                                 427






           1   didn't think at the time that I even knew that

           2   Dieter was part of the group.

           3       Q.  Would it refresh your recollection if I show

           4   you the report?

           5       A.  Certainly.

           6           MR. MESEREAU:  May I approach, Your Honor?

           7           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  May I see it, Counsel?

           8           MR. MESEREAU:  Sure.

           9           That's what he's referring to.  That's her

          10   interview.

          11           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Well, that's his

          12   impression.

          13           MR. MESEREAU:  We'll see.

          14           THE WITNESS:  Yes.

          15       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  Have you had a chance to

          16   look at that?

          17       A.  Yes, I did.

          18       Q.  Okay.

          19           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Your Honor, may the record

          20   reflect that the document that was shown the witness

          21   in this case had parentheses around the names that

          22   were provided by --

          23           THE WITNESS:  I didn't say those names.  I

          24   said the word "they."

          25       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  So when the police officer

          26   said, referring to those names, he just pulled that

          27   out of someplace?

          28       A.  I did not say those names.  And I know I


                                                                 428






           1   wouldn't have said Dieter's name, because I -- I

           2   hadn't spoken to Dieter.

           3       Q.  Okay.  Well, at this point you were

           4   concerned about what the team was doing; is that

           5   right?

           6       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

           7       Q.  Would the team refer to all of the people

           8   that you had previously identified as members of the

           9   team?

          10       A.  Except for Bell Yard and the attorneys on

          11   the UK side, yes.

          12       Q.  So Geragos, Konitzer, Schaffel?

          13       A.  Schaffel, Backerman.

          14       Q.  Were you concerned about what LeGrand was

          15   doing?

          16       A.  No, I felt that David was under a lot of

          17   pressure, and, you know, I had no reason to suspect

          18   that at that time he would be doing anything wrong.

          19       Q.  But at that point, LeGrand was telling you

          20   he was suspicious of the other members of the team,

          21   wasn't he?

          22       A.  No.  Not at that point.

          23       Q.  At some point he did, didn't he?

          24       A.  At some point later, yes, he did.

          25       Q.  Now, when you arrived in Los Angeles to go

          26   on Access Hollywood, did you talk to any member of

          27   the team on the phone after you arrived?

          28       A.  Yes, I did.


                                                                 429






           1       Q.  Who did you talk to?

           2       A.  David LeGrand.

           3       Q.  Did you ever talk to Konitzer that day?

           4       A.  Not that day, I don't believe so, but I

           5   don't remember, sir.

           6       Q.  Okay.  Who told you to appear on that show?

           7       A.  Well, initially the decision came from Marc

           8   Schaffel.  And then I spoke -- Access Hollywood sent

           9   the questions to me.  I forwarded them to Mr.

          10   Geragos.  We went through them together and created

          11   the replies.  And then I spent about an hour and a

          12   half or so on the phone on Thursday, the 13th, with

          13   Mr. Konitzer going over everything for it.  So there

          14   were -- and then, of course, Mr. LeGrand was aware

          15   -- actually, I believe I was in his office on the

          16   11th when I talked to Access Hollywood to initially

          17   set something -- to do something up with them, so --

          18       Q.  But you've told the police that you thought

          19   Geragos didn't want anybody to do public relations

          20   work for Michael Jackson, correct?

          21       A.  I don't remember saying that specifically.

          22   I mean, I don't -- no, I don't remember saying that

          23   specifically, that Geragos didn't want anybody to do

          24   public relations work for Michael Jackson.

          25       Q.  Didn't you tell the Santa Barbara sheriffs

          26   in that interview that you had a theory as to why

          27   you were pulled off the Access Hollywood show,

          28   right?


                                                                 430






           1       A.  Yes, I did.

           2       Q.  You told them that you were told by Geragos

           3   that you were pulled off the interview because he

           4   did not want anyone to do PR work for Michael

           5   Jackson, right?

           6       A.  When I was on the phone with Mr. Geragos

           7   when I was on the set of Access Hollywood, that was

           8   one of the things that he told me at that time.  He

           9   didn't say anyone ever, he just said for that day.

          10   He wanted me to stay around, to stick in town, he

          11   wanted to talk to me.  He wanted me to come in the

          12   next day, sign a private investigator's agreement,

          13   and then he would -- he would fill me in on the

          14   rest, is exactly what he said to me.

          15       Q.  Again, let me just rephrase the question.

          16   You told the police you were told by Geragos that

          17   you were pulled off the interview because he did not

          18   want anyone to do PR work for Michael Jackson,

          19   right?

          20       A.  Well, as you said, that's a summary of my

          21   tapes --

          22       Q.  Okay.

          23       A.  -- and I don't remember saying those words

          24   exactly.

          25       Q.  Didn't you tell the police that this made no

          26   sense to you?

          27       A.  Yes, I did.

          28       Q.  It made no sense that Geragos would not want


                                                                 431






           1   you on the show for that reason; is that correct?

           2       A.  It made no sense that no one on the team

           3   would try to do anything publicly to refute the

           4   absolutely horrible things that were coming out

           5   about Mr. Jackson.

           6       Q.  Okay.  And you told the police you thought

           7   Michael Jackson was being slammed by this team,

           8   correct?

           9       A.  Yes, I believe I did.

          10       Q.  The word you used was "slammed," right?

          11       A.  I believe so, yes.

          12       Q.  You thought they were not doing their job to

          13   help Michael Jackson, right?

          14       A.  Well, they were there longer than my six

          15   days, so maybe I was wrong.

          16       Q.  I'm not asking maybe.  But, basically, your

          17   opinion at that point was that this team is not out

          18   to protect or help Michael Jackson?

          19       A.  That was absolutely my opinion, yes.

          20       Q.  You told the police that Access Hollywood

          21   had a fax from Mr. Geragos saying, "Don't interview

          22   Gabriel," right?

          23       A.  That's correct, yes, sir.

          24       Q.  Did you actually see the fax?

          25       A.  Yes, sir, I did.

          26       Q.  You told the police that LeGrand and Geragos

          27   clashed over several things, right?

          28       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.


                                                                 432






           1       Q.  And you were getting your information about

           2   that from LeGrand, weren't you?

           3       A.  Yes, sir.  That's correct.

           4       Q.  And you told the police you thought Konitzer

           5   brought Geragos in because Konitzer had power of

           6   attorney, right?

           7           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection; hearsay.

           8   And --

           9           THE COURT:  Overruled.

          10           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  -- speculation.  No

          11   foundation.

          12           THE COURT:  Overruled.

          13           You may answer.

          14           THE WITNESS:  Can you repeat the question?

          15   I'm sorry.

          16       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  Yes.  You told the police

          17   that you believe Konitzer brought in Geragos because

          18   Konitzer had a power of attorney, right?

          19       A.  I believed that because Mr. Konitzer had the

          20   power of attorney that allowed him to make the

          21   decision to bring Geragos into the team, yes.

          22       Q.  Now, did you discuss that with Mr. LeGrand

          23   at any time?

          24       A.  Did I discuss Mr. Geragos being brought in?

          25       Q.  Yes.

          26       A.  And that Mr. Konitzer had brought him in?

          27       Q.  Yes.

          28       A.  I don't remember.  I mean, I'm sure that we


                                                                 433






           1   did, but I don't remember in specifics.  I just

           2   remember that David was not happy with Mr. Geragos.

           3       Q.  Okay.  Did you ever see this power of

           4   attorney that Konitzer had --

           5       A.  No, sir, I never saw it.

           6       Q.  -- over Mr. Jackson?  You never saw it?

           7       A.  No.

           8       Q.  You learned everything about that from

           9   Mr. LeGrand, right?

          10       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          11       Q.  Okay.  And you were fired through an e-mail

          12   by Konitzer, right?

          13       A.  Well, no.  It was through an e-mail by

          14   David.  David sent me the e-mail.

          15       Q.  Well, you told the police that you were

          16   fired on February 15th by an e-mail from Konitzer,

          17   didn't you?

          18       A.  David sent me the e-mail.  I'm sure that I

          19   said that David sent me the e-mail.

          20       Q.  Okay.  Would it refresh your recollection if

          21   I just show you the report?

          22       A.  You can show me the report, but the e-mail

          23   didn't come from Ronald.  The e-mail came from

          24   David.  And I can tell you what it said, if you

          25   would like me to.

          26       Q.  No, that's okay.  But you're saying you

          27   didn't tell the sheriffs Konitzer sent it.  You told

          28   them David sent it, is that right?


                                                                 434






           1       A.  I don't remember if I said specifically

           2   David sent it.  But the e-mail said that Ronald made

           3   the decision, so that may be why it reads that way.

           4       Q.  Okay.  You told the police you had sent an

           5   e-mail to Konitzer, right?

           6       A.  That's correct.

           7       Q.  And you told the police you sent an e-mail

           8   to Konitzer saying, "Schaffel, Backerman and Weizner

           9   have no plan of action and that Michael Jackson is

          10   going to get skewered on national T.V.," right?

          11       A.  Again, I would have never said Weizner,

          12   because I never heard Dieter's name during that

          13   time.  And, yes, I probably did say that Michael was

          14   going to get skewered.  And that was -- one of my

          15   major concerns was that there was no plan of action

          16   to protect his interests from scurrilous

          17   accusations.

          18       Q.  Okay.  Okay.  Was there ever any discussion

          19   between you and members of this team about getting

          20   rid of Backerman and Schaffel?

          21       A.  In the e-mail that I sent to Ronald, I

          22   detailed reasons why I thought that he needed to get

          23   rid of Mr. Backerman and Mr. Schaffel, yes.

          24       Q.  Did you actually tell him he ought to do

          25   that?

          26       A.  I put it in the e-mail to Mr. Konitzer, yes,

          27   I did.

          28       Q.  And why did you think Mr. Backerman should


                                                                 435






           1   go?

           2       A.  Because he had done things that I felt were

           3   detrimental to the positive public relations effort

           4   we were trying to move forward.

           5       Q.  Okay.  To make a long story short, you

           6   thought you had a better plan to protect and

           7   represent Mr. Jackson than this team, right?

           8       A.  I believed that I had Mr. Jackson's public

           9   relations interests at heart much more than Mr.

          10   Backerman or Mr. Schaffel, yes, absolutely.

          11       Q.  What about the other members of the team?

          12   Did you think you had more of an interest in doing a

          13   good job for Mr. Jackson than the other members,

          14   like Mr. Geragos?

          15       A.  I didn't know what Mr. Geragos's position

          16   was.  So I can't speak to their intentions.  I don't

          17   know.  I can only speak to what I know.

          18       Q.  Okay.  You told the sheriffs that when you

          19   saw the Bashir interview, it disgusted you and made

          20   you ill, right?

          21       A.  Yes, that's correct.

          22       Q.  And you told them, the police -- pardon me,

          23   I keep saying "police" -- the sheriffs that Konitzer

          24   and Weizner have a record of making very bad

          25   business deals, right?

          26       A.  Yes, that's correct.

          27       Q.  You told the sheriffs that Konitzer and

          28   Weizner have scammed people out of millions of


                                                                 436






           1   dollars, right?

           2       A.  Yes, that's correct.

           3       Q.  You told the sheriffs that after you were

           4   fired by Konitzer, Mr. LeGrand hired you to do

           5   public relations work, right?

           6       A.  Yes, that's correct.

           7       Q.  Now, was that for his law firm?

           8       A.  No, that was for him personally.

           9       Q.  Him personally?

          10       A.  Uh-huh.

          11       Q.  To your knowledge, was he a partner at a law

          12   firm then?

          13       A.  Yes, that's correct.

          14       Q.  You told the sheriffs LeGrand ran a

          15   background check on Konitzer, right?

          16       A.  I didn't hear your question, I'm sorry.

          17       Q.  You told the sheriffs that LeGrand was doing

          18   a background check on Konitzer, right?

          19       A.  Yes, he did.

          20       Q.  Did you encourage him to do that?

          21       A.  Yes, I did.

          22       Q.  Because you were suspicious of what Konitzer

          23   was up to, right?

          24       A.  I was suspicious of everything, yes.

          25       Q.  On that team?

          26       A.  On that team, yes.

          27       Q.  Did you tell that to Mr. LeGrand?

          28       A.  Yes, I did.  Many, many times.


                                                                 437






           1       Q.  Okay.  You told the sheriffs that it was

           2   your understanding that LeGrand and Konitzer had

           3   been casual friends for about nine years, right?

           4       A.  That's what David told me, yes.

           5       Q.  And you told the sheriffs you thought

           6   Konitzer hired LeGrand because he thought LeGrand

           7   would be quiet and just do his job, correct?

           8       A.  Yes, that's correct, that's what I said.

           9       Q.  But at some point you learned that LeGrand

          10   started an investigation of Konitzer, right?

          11       A.  At some point I pushed David to go in that

          12   direction, yes.

          13       Q.  And you pushed David to investigate a lot of

          14   other people, didn't you, besides Konitzer?

          15       A.  Who?

          16       Q.  Malnik.

          17       A.  No.  I didn't push David to investigate Al

          18   Malnik.

          19       Q.  But you learned that he was investigating

          20   him, didn't you?

          21       A.  I don't remember David ever telling me that

          22   he was investigating Al Malnik.

          23       Q.  How about Schaffel?

          24       A.  I don't remember David ever telling me he

          25   was investigating Marc Schaffel either.

          26       Q.  Okay.  So you don't know anything about that

          27   investigation, if it existed, right?

          28       A.  No, sir, I don't.


                                                                 438






           1       Q.  Never seen any documents that LeGrand showed

           2   you about those people being investigated?

           3       A.  No, sir, I did not.

           4       Q.  Okay.  You told the sheriffs that LeGrand

           5   would not have investigated if you had not put these

           6   questions in his head, right?

           7       A.  I believe that to be true, yes, because he

           8   told me in the beginning that I was overreacting.

           9       Q.  Okay.  And you told the sheriffs that once

          10   LeGrand started doing his investigation and

          11   background checks on Konitzer, he spoke with

          12   accounting people and found out Konitzer had

          13   embezzled $980,000 from Mr. Jackson, right?

          14       A.  That was the total figure that he told me,

          15   yes.

          16       Q.  You told the sheriffs that one thing of

          17   value that Michael Jackson has is a Sony catalog,

          18   correct?

          19       A.  That's correct.

          20       Q.  How did you learn about the Sony catalog?

          21       A.  Through several sources.

          22       Q.  Can I ask you who they are?

          23       A.  Well, first of all, public knowledge.  And

          24   of course David told me.

          25       Q.  And what is your understanding of what the

          26   Sony catalog is?

          27       A.  It's a collection of music, copyrights on

          28   music.


                                                                 439






           1       Q.  And what kinds of music are you talking

           2   about?

           3       A.  Popular music.  But basically music from The

           4   Beatles and other artists.

           5       Q.  You told the sheriffs your understanding was

           6   that Sony had an interest in that catalog, along

           7   with Mr. Jackson, right?

           8       A.  Yes, that's correct.

           9       Q.  And you told the sheriffs that you thought

          10   Konitzer was being paid to isolate Michael Jackson,

          11   create Michael Jackson's downfall so Sony can get

          12   the catalog back, didn't you?

          13       A.  No, that's not what I said.

          14       Q.  Would it refresh your recollection if I show

          15   you the report?

          16       A.  You can show me the report, but that's not

          17   what I said.

          18       Q.  Did you ever say the following, Ms. Kite:

          19   "Gabriel said it makes sense to her that Konitzer

          20   and Weizner were being paid to isolate Michael

          21   Jackson and let him do his own thing and let him

          22   create his downfall so that Sony can get the catalog

          23   back"?

          24       A.  No, sir.

          25       Q.  Never made that statement?

          26       A.  Not in that way, never, sir.

          27       Q.  Okay.  Did you ever tell the sheriffs you

          28   thought the recording industry was just as bad as Al


                                                                 440






           1   Malnik?

           2       A.  I probably did, yes.

           3       Q.  Okay.  Now, you read this report before you

           4   came in to testify, right?

           5       A.  Yes, sir, I did.

           6       Q.  Did you ever point out to anyone that you

           7   thought some of the statements were not accurate?

           8       A.  Yes, sir, I did.

           9       Q.  Who was that?

          10       A.  To Gordon.

          11       Q.  When was this?

          12       A.  I don't remember.

          13       Q.  You don't remember?  You talked to him for a

          14   couple of hours two nights ago, correct?

          15       A.  Yes, sir.

          16       Q.  Did you talk to him about the report then?

          17       A.  No, I don't believe I did talk to him about

          18   the report then.

          19       Q.  Okay.  You told the sheriffs you're not

          20   saying that Sony is paying Konitzer and Weizner, but

          21   if you could prove it, you'd love to?

          22       A.  Yes, I said that as a facetious remark.

          23   Absolutely.  I did say that.

          24       Q.  You told the sheriffs you have a lot of

          25   sources inside of Sony, correct?

          26       A.  That's correct, yes.

          27       Q.  And you told the sheriffs that those sources

          28   inside of Sony have told you that they've been


                                                                 441






           1   waiting for years to get the Sony catalog back from

           2   Michael Jackson, correct?

           3       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

           4       Q.  And you told the sheriffs that if you look

           5   at Konitzer and Weizner's track record, they're not

           6   the type of people that should be managing anything

           7   for Michael Jackson, right?

           8       A.  Yes, sir, that's what I believed, yes.

           9       Q.  Told the sheriffs, "If you look at their

          10   track record, they're not good business people,"

          11   right?

          12       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          13       Q.  You told the sheriffs that they caused

          14   Michael Jackson to lose his logo in the United

          15   Kingdom?

          16       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct, I did say that.

          17       Q.  How did you know that?

          18       A.  I read that through news reports and I

          19   believe David confirmed that for me.

          20       Q.  And you thought -- you told the Santa

          21   Barbara sheriffs you thought Konitzer and Weizner

          22   were tight with Schaffel, right?

          23       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct, I did.

          24       Q.  And you thought they all were hurting

          25   Michael Jackson, right?

          26       A.  Yes, sir, I do, absolutely.

          27       Q.  And you still believe that, right?

          28       A.  Yes, absolutely.


                                                                 442






           1       Q.  You told the Santa Barbara sheriffs that you

           2   think somewhere down the line Konitzer and Weizner

           3   were going to get a payoff, right?

           4       A.  I don't remember -- you know, I don't

           5   remember using those exact words, and I don't know

           6   what context I would use it in.

           7       Q.  Would it refresh your recollection if I show

           8   you the report?

           9       A.  Sure you can.

          10           MR. MESEREAU:  May I approach, Your Honor?

          11           THE COURT:  Yes.

          12       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  Have you had a chance to

          13   look at the report?

          14       A.  Yes, sir, I have.

          15       Q.  Does it refresh your recollection about what

          16   you said?

          17       A.  Yes, it does.

          18       Q.  And regardless of where you got your

          19   knowledge, I'm just asking if you said this to the

          20   sheriffs.

          21       A.  Yes, I believe I did say that, yes.

          22       Q.  So you told them it made sense to you that

          23   down the line Konitzer and Weizner were going to get

          24   some kind of payoff?

          25       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.  But that payoff

          26   could have been from a business interest; it could

          27   have been from any number of things.

          28       Q.  You told the Santa Barbara sheriffs you


                                                                 443






           1   believed that Konitzer, Weizner and Schaffel

           2   concocted the business with Janet Arvizo, right?

           3       A.  Again, I wouldn't have used Dieter's name,

           4   because I had no knowledge of Dieter at the time.

           5   That I believe they concocted the business with her?

           6   Meaning --

           7       Q.  That they were doing something with

           8   Arvizo --

           9       A.  Yes.

          10       Q.  -- that was harmful to Michael Jackson,

          11   correct?

          12       A.  Yes.

          13       Q.  And you were concerned that Schaffel and

          14   Konitzer had done something to Janet Arvizo as well,

          15   right?

          16       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          17       Q.  So, basically what you were telling the

          18   sheriffs was, you think Michael Jackson's a victim

          19   and Janet Arvizo is a victim of these guys, right?

          20           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection; that's

          21   argumentative.

          22           THE COURT:  Sustained.

          23       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  Now, again, you have no

          24   personal knowledge of what happened at the ranch

          25   with Miss Arvizo, right?

          26       A.  You're absolutely correct, sir, I have no

          27   personal knowledge of that.

          28       Q.  And you have no personal knowledge of really


                                                                 444






           1   anything Michael Jackson's done in his lifetime,

           2   because you've never been there to watch him, right?

           3       A.  That's absolutely correct, sir.

           4       Q.  And how many times did you talk to Schaffel

           5   about what he said happened to Janet Arvizo at the

           6   ranch, do you know?

           7       A.  After the first phone call in the morning?

           8       Q.  Uh-huh.

           9       A.  I don't know.  Maybe two times, three times

          10   total that day.  Not many.

          11       Q.  Uh-huh.  Did he ever really describe to you

          12   what had happened at the ranch?

          13       A.  Other than telling me that they left the

          14   ranch, no.

          15       Q.  And he told you they returned, right?

          16       A.  He told me that the situation had been

          17   contained.

          18       Q.  And he also told you they returned.

          19       A.  That they had returned, yes.

          20       Q.  Did he ever give you any details about that?

          21       A.  About how they returned?

          22       Q.  Yes.

          23       A.  No, sir, he did not.

          24       Q.  So Schaffel never gave you any details about

          25   how they left or how they returned, right?

          26       A.  No.  He just said they left in the middle --

          27   in the middle of the night --

          28       Q.  Right.


                                                                 445






           1       A.  -- or sometimeearly in the morning.

           2       Q.  Right.

           3       A.  And due to his level of agitation, I assumed

           4   they didn't go out in a chauffeur-driven limousine.

           5       Q.  Do you know how they went out?

           6       A.  No, sir, I do not.

           7       Q.  Did anyone ever tell you it was a chauffeur-

           8   driven car?

           9       A.  No, sir.

          10       Q.  Ever discuss that with Prosecutor

          11   Auchincloss?

          12       A.  No, sir, I did not, ever.

          13       Q.  Okay.  But at one point you used the word

          14   "kidnap," didn't you, to the sheriffs?

          15       A.  Yes, sir, I absolutely did.

          16       Q.  But you didn't know she was kidnapped.

          17       A.  No, I didn't.

          18       Q.  You knew none of the details at all, right?

          19       A.  No, that was my own personal feeling based

          20   on Marc Schaffel's level of agitation.

          21       Q.  I guess it goes without saying, you didn't

          22   trust Mr. Schaffel very much either?

          23       A.  No, sir, I did not.

          24       Q.  You didn't trust Mr. Konitzer either?

          25       A.  No, sir, I did not.

          26       Q.  Did you trust Mr. Geragos?

          27       A.  I didn't trust or distrust Mr. Geragos.

          28       Q.  Okay.  The ones you were most suspicious


                                                                 446






           1   about were Schaffel and Konitzer, right?  Would that

           2   be accurate?

           3       A.  An accurate reflection would be to say that

           4   I was most suspicious about anyone who was taking

           5   their eye off of the devastation that was happening

           6   to Mr. Jackson at that time.

           7       Q.  Okay.  And I guess it goes without saying,

           8   you were concerned about Mr. Jackson's welfare as a

           9   public relations professional?

          10       A.  Absolutely, sir, yes.

          11       Q.  You thought he was mistreated and

          12   misadvised, right?

          13       A.  Yes, sir.  For the six days I was there.

          14       Q.  You've told the Santa Barbara sheriffs that

          15   Mr. Geragos was being paid by Al Malnik, right?

          16       A.  I don't remember saying that specifically.

          17   You can show me the report, and I remember reading

          18   that in the report, but I don't remember saying that

          19   specifically to them.

          20       Q.  Well, you told them that he was being paid

          21   by Malnik, but when they questioned you, you said it

          22   was just an assumption, didn't you?

          23       A.  I believe the context of that comment came

          24   from when Mr. Jackson was -- from when the ranch was

          25   raided in November, and Mr. Jackson was taken from

          26   Las Vegas back to L.A., or back here.

          27       Q.  Well, in referring to this interview, the

          28   one I've been asking you all the questions about --


                                                                 447






           1       A.  Right.

           2       Q.  -- you told the Santa Barbara sheriffs that

           3   you assumed Mr. Geragos was being paid by Al Malnik,

           4   correct?

           5       A.  The fee for Mr. Geragos at the time to

           6   represent Mr. Jackson.  Not during the public

           7   relations period that I worked there --

           8       Q.  Okay.

           9       A.   -- but after, later in the month.  Yes,

          10   that's what I said.

          11       Q.  Okay.

          12       A.  Uh-huh.

          13       Q.  Let me just get it straight so I understand:

          14   You told the Santa Barbara sheriffs you thought Mr.

          15   Geragos was being paid by Al Malnik, but you're

          16   referring to a period after the six days you had

          17   worked?

          18       A.  Yes, sir, that's absolutely correct.

          19       Q.  Okay.  Thank you.

          20           Now, you made some statements about what you

          21   think a proactive public relations effort is.  But

          22   you knew that a rebuttal film was being prepared

          23   that was supposed to be a public relations response

          24   to the Bashir tape, correct?

          25       A.  That's correct.

          26       Q.  And you told the Santa Barbara sheriffs that

          27   somebody was getting $3 million for that rebuttal

          28   video; right?


                                                                 448






           1       A.  That's correct.

           2       Q.  Was it your understanding that Schaffel was

           3   getting that money?

           4       A.  No, it was my understanding that it was

           5   going into a corporation.

           6       Q.  Okay.  Do you know what corporation?

           7       A.  Fire Mountain, I believe.

           8       Q.  Okay.  So realistically, you knew that

           9   something was being done to respond to the Bashir

          10   video, right?  Or, excuse me, the Bashir show?

          11       A.  Realistically, I knew that something was

          12   being done.  Whether or not it was something that I

          13   agreed with or thought was the level that Mr.

          14   Jackson deserved is a totally different question.

          15       Q.  Did Schaffel or Konitzer really include you

          16   in the production of that rebuttal video?

          17       A.  What do you mean by "include"?

          18       Q.  Well, during the six days you worked with

          19   this team, did they ask you for any advice on how to

          20   do a rebuttal video?

          21       A.  Not on how to do the video.  But Mr.

          22   Schaffel did call me to discuss with me who would

          23   appear on the video.  And I told him that I felt

          24   very strongly that Mr. Jackson needed to appear on

          25   it to refute, himself, the claims that were being

          26   made against him.

          27       Q.  Okay.  And were you asked anything else

          28   about what your thoughts were on that rebuttal


                                                                 449






           1   video?

           2       A.  I don't remember.

           3       Q.  Is that the only suggestion you gave, that

           4   you can recall?

           5       A.  That I can recall sitting right here right

           6   now, yes.

           7       Q.  Okay.  Did you feel in some way that they

           8   were cutting you out of the development of that

           9   rebuttal video?

          10       A.  No, I didn't, because there were so many

          11   other fires going on and so many other things that

          12   needed to be done.  And the way that that video was

          13   being structured wasn't really anything that I felt

          14   that I could give input to anyway.

          15       Q.  Did you think that video was being prepared

          16   with Mr. Jackson's interests in mind?

          17       A.  I believed that Mr. Konitzer and Mr.

          18   Schaffel were preparing -- were preparing it with

          19   Mr. Jackson's interests in mind, yes.

          20       Q.  But you thought they could do a better job,

          21   is that it?

          22       A.  Absolutely, yes, sir.

          23       Q.  Did you think they had a profit motive in

          24   trying to put that video together?

          25       A.  Yes, sir, I did.

          26           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  I'll object and move to

          27   strike just as to foundation.  And speculation.

          28           THE COURT:  Overruled.


                                                                 450






           1       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  You told the sheriffs that

           2   Schaffel was part of an agreement with FOX

           3   Television regarding a rebuttal video, correct?

           4       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

           5       Q.  You told them that it was your understanding

           6   Schaffel had reaped some of those profits, right?

           7       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

           8       Q.  And you told the sheriffs that, if you saw

           9   it, you could identify Schaffel's agreement,

          10   correct?

          11       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          12       Q.  Did you actually see the agreement at one

          13   time?

          14       A.  Yes, I believe I saw a draft copy of the

          15   agreement.

          16       Q.  Now, you never met Schaffel personally,

          17   right?

          18       A.  No, sir.

          19       Q.  How did you end up seeing Schaffel's

          20   agreement with FOX Television?

          21       A.  Because the initial agreement, David LeGrand

          22   called me and asked me to have a friend of mine in

          23   Chicago, who had done entertainment work, help him

          24   prepare it.

          25       Q.  Okay.  And who was that?

          26       A.  Don Hancock.

          27       Q.  Okay.  Did you help Don Hancock put that

          28   agreement together?


                                                                 451






           1       A.  No, he did it pretty much on his own,

           2   because I was busy with other things.

           3       Q.  Okay.  And it was your understanding the

           4   agreement was strictly between Schaffel and FOX; is

           5   that correct?

           6       A.  No, sir, that --

           7       Q.  What was your understanding in that regard?

           8       A.  It was my understanding that the agreement

           9   was being done on behalf of Mr. Jackson, but that

          10   there were stipulations in the agreement that Mr.

          11   Schaffel could and would profit from.

          12       Q.  Okay.  At the time this was all being done,

          13   you thought Schaffel was trying to make a large sum

          14   of money on this, didn't you?

          15       A.  I didn't know how much money Mr. Schaffel

          16   was trying to make on it.  I don't know.

          17       Q.  Did Schaffel ever discuss that with you?

          18       A.  How much money he would make on it?

          19       Q.  Yes.

          20       A.  Not that I remember, no.

          21       Q.  Did you ever discuss that with Konitzer?

          22       A.  How much money Mr. Schaffel would make on

          23   something like this?

          24       Q.  Yes.

          25       A.  Not that I remember, no, sir.

          26       Q.  Was it your understanding that Mr. Konitzer

          27   was going to make money on this video?

          28       A.  No, sir.  That wasn't my understanding of


                                                                 452






           1   why the video was being made.

           2       Q.  All right.  Let me explore that for a

           3   second.  You certainly believed people were trying

           4   to make money on this rebuttal video, right?

           5       A.  That's correct.

           6       Q.  You thought Schaffel was one of them, right?

           7       A.  That's correct.

           8       Q.  Did you think anyone else was making money

           9   on it?

          10       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct, I did.

          11       Q.  Was that Konitzer?

          12       A.  No, it wasn't.

          13       Q.  Who was it?

          14       A.  Mr. Jackson.

          15       Q.  Okay.  How did you know that?

          16       A.  Because David LeGrand told me.

          17       Q.  Okay.  Did you think LeGrand was going to

          18   make any money on it?

          19       A.  I didn't ask him.  I had no idea.

          20       Q.  Okay.  Okay.  Did you look at the draft of

          21   the agreement?

          22       A.  I don't remember.  I may have, but I

          23   really -- after I spoke with Don initially, I put

          24   him in touch with David, and they pretty much took

          25   care of it.

          26       Q.  But you never discussed, obviously, with Mr.

          27   Jackson any role he had in this video at all, right?

          28       A.  No, sir, I did not.


                                                                 453






           1       Q.  And you never actually watched Mr. Jackson

           2   play any role in this, did you?

           3       A.  No, sir, I did not.  No.

           4       Q.  You told the sheriffs that there were two

           5   deals with FOX, correct?

           6       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

           7       Q.  One was for a $3 million deal and one was a

           8   $2 million deal?

           9       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          10       Q.  The first was a videotape that Schaffel or

          11   someone named Christian had videotaped, right?

          12       A.  They were involved in it, yes.

          13       Q.  And the second had to do with Michael

          14   Jackson home videos, right?

          15       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct, sir.

          16       Q.  Did you play any role in the development of

          17   these home videos?

          18       A.  No, sir.

          19       Q.  Have you ever seen the rebuttal video that

          20   was telecast by FOX?

          21       A.  Yes, I believe I did.

          22       Q.  When did you see it?

          23       A.  I don't remember.  I don't remember.  It may

          24   have been around the time that it was shown or it

          25   may have been later.  I truly don't remember.

          26       Q.  Did you ever see the home videos you

          27   referred to?

          28       A.  I believe I did, but I don't remember.


                                                                 454






           1       Q.  Were you asked advice on the development of

           2   the home videos?

           3       A.  David and I had discussed that before when

           4   we talked about a plan to -- to rehabilitate Mr.

           5   Jackson's image, but that was before it actually

           6   came into being.

           7       Q.  Okay.  You told the sheriffs that Geragos

           8   was paid money by Malnik, right?

           9       A.  Yes, sir, I did.

          10       Q.  And you learned that from Mr. LeGrand; is

          11   that correct?

          12       A.  I don't remember who I learned that from.

          13   And I believe, again, you're talking about the time

          14   after I was there for the six days.  And I don't

          15   remember if it came from Mr. LeGrand or not.  I

          16   don't remember.

          17       Q.  You told the sheriffs that you were told by

          18   LeGrand that the remaining money owed to Geragos was

          19   paid by Al Malnik, to, quote, "keep this thing

          20   going," correct?

          21       A.  Yeah, that's probably true.

          22       Q.  Okay.  You told the sheriffs you did not

          23   know what the connection was, if any, between Malnik

          24   and Michael Jackson, right?

          25       A.  That's correct, yes.

          26       Q.  Because you've never seen Mr. Malnik with

          27   Mr. Jackson, right?

          28       A.  Just in the newspaper like everyone else,


                                                                 455






           1   that's correct.

           2       Q.  And you never met Mr. Malnik personally,

           3   right?

           4       A.  No, sir, I never did.

           5       Q.  You told the sheriffs you kept quizzing Mr.

           6   LeGrand about Malnik and the video and what this

           7   team is doing, right?

           8       A.  After -- when I went to work for David

           9   public-relations-wise?  Is that your question?

          10       Q.  Yes.

          11       A.  I mean, I'm asking you timeframe-wise.

          12       Q.  Yes.

          13       A.  Yes, that's correct.

          14       Q.  And he would often give you information,

          15   right?

          16       A.  Yes, that's correct.

          17       Q.  Okay.  And you told them that Mr. LeGrand is

          18   scared of an attorney named John Branca, right?

          19       A.  That's what he told me, yes, sir.

          20       Q.  And you told them that he was scared of

          21   Branca because he had fired Mr. Branca, correct?

          22       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          23       Q.  "He" being LeGrand?

          24       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          25       Q.  And you told the sheriffs that Mr. Branca

          26   had worked for Mr. Jackson off and on for

          27   approximately 20 years, right?

          28       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.


                                                                 456






           1       Q.  And you told them Mr. Branca gets a

           2   percentage of music deals that Michael Jackson

           3   signs; is that correct?

           4       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

           5       Q.  How did you know that?

           6       A.  Mr. LeGrand told me that.

           7       Q.  And you told them that Branca has an account

           8   that this money goes to, right?

           9       A.  Yes, that's correct.

          10       Q.  And Mr. LeGrand told you he was scared of

          11   Branca because he knew a lot about what Branca was

          12   doing with Michael Jackson's money, correct?

          13       A.  I don't remember that I phrased it that way.

          14       Q.  How did you phrase it, if you know?

          15       A.  I just remember saying that Mr. LeGrand was

          16   afraid of Mr. Branca.

          17       Q.  Did Mr. LeGrand tell you he was suspicious

          18   of what Mr. Branca was doing with Mr. Jackson's

          19   money?

          20       A.  I don't remember him using the word

          21   "suspicious."  I don't remember specifically what he

          22   said about it.

          23       Q.  Okay.  But based upon your conversations

          24   with LeGrand, you formed the conclusion that LeGrand

          25   was suspicious of what Branca was doing with Mr.

          26   Jackson's affairs, true?

          27       A.  I can't answer that, because I can't speak

          28   to what was in David's mind.  I don't have -- you


                                                                 457






           1   know, I don't know how I could form an opinion at

           2   that point.

           3       Q.  But you told the sheriffs that LeGrand told

           4   you that he was physically afraid of Branca, right?

           5       A.  Yes, he did.

           6       Q.  You told the Santa Barbara sheriffs that Mr.

           7   LeGrand would refer to Al Malnik as "Uncle Al,"

           8   correct?

           9       A.  That's correct, he did.

          10       Q.  Did he tell you he was afraid of Uncle Al?

          11       A.  No.

          12       Q.  Okay.  Didn't you tell the Santa Barbara

          13   sheriffs that Mr. LeGrand told you, "Mr. Malnik has

          14   connections, and I don't want to see anyone end up

          15   dead in an alley"?

          16       A.  He didn't say it in that context, sir.  Not

          17   at all.

          18       Q.  Okay.  I'm not asking you in what context he

          19   said it, but didn't you tell the sheriffs that

          20   LeGrand told you that?

          21       A.  I did not make a statement like that, no.

          22       Q.  Would it refresh your recollection if I show

          23   you the report?

          24       A.  You can show me the report, and I know what

          25   you're referring to, and I did not make a statement

          26   like that.

          27       Q.  You were misquoted, do you think?

          28       A.  I think so, yes.  I know exactly what that


                                                                 458






           1   statement was referring to.

           2       Q.  Just correct me if I'm wrong.  You didn't

           3   tell the Santa Barbara sheriffs that LeGrand told

           4   you words to the effect, "I know Malnik has some

           5   connections and I don't want to see anyone end up

           6   dead in an alley"?

           7       A.  You're taking it totally out of context.

           8   No.  Mr. -- Mr. LeGrand never said anything to me or

           9   words to those effect, using it the way you are in

          10   the statement, no.

          11       Q.  Okay.  You told the Santa Barbara sheriffs

          12   words to the effect that you thought Konitzer and

          13   Schaffel and others were conspiring against Michael

          14   Jackson, correct?

          15           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection; foundation.

          16   Also requires hearsay to form that opinion.

          17           THE COURT:  The objection's overruled.

          18           You may answer.

          19           THE WITNESS:  I don't believe I said words

          20   to the effect that I believe they were conspiring

          21   against Mr. Jackson.  What I did say was that I

          22   believed that their actions were not beneficial to

          23   Mr. Jackson.

          24       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  But you certainly

          25   discussed with Mr. LeGrand Mr. LeGrand's concern

          26   about what these individuals were doing to Mr.

          27   Jackson, correct?

          28       A.  It was my concern about the way that Mr.


                                                                 459






           1   Jackson's public relations image was being handled,

           2   and I took that concern continuously to Mr. LeGrand.

           3       Q.  But I'm not asking you about that.  You and

           4   Mr. LeGrand repeatedly discussed his concerns and

           5   your concerns that these characters were taking

           6   advantage of Mr. Jackson, correct?

           7       A.  My concerns, which David told me several

           8   times that I was overreacting, until I continued to

           9   press him on it, and he began the investigation.

          10       Q.  Okay.  Thank you.

          11           You told the sheriffs that Konitzer told you

          12   Michael Jackson hadn't seen Mr. Schaffel for months,

          13   right?

          14       A.  That's correct, yes.

          15       Q.  You told the Santa Barbara sheriffs that

          16   Konitzer said, "Schaffel's a good guy"; is that

          17   right?

          18       A.  That statement is in the report, but it

          19   wasn't Mr. Konitzer that said that about Mr.

          20   Schaffel.

          21       Q.  He never said that to you?

          22       A.  Not to my recollection.

          23       Q.  Okay.  And you told the sheriffs you felt

          24   that Konitzer, Weizner and Schaffel manipulated Mr.

          25   Jackson to get whatever they wanted, right?

          26           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection.  Calls for a

          27   conclusion; speculation.

          28           THE COURT:  Overruled.


                                                                 460






           1           THE WITNESS:  I don't believe I said they

           2   manipulated Mr. Jackson.  I believe I said they

           3   manipulated the situation.

           4       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  But the situation had

           5   everything to do with Mr. Jackson's welfare, right?

           6           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection; argumentative.

           7           THE COURT:  Sustained.

           8       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  You told them Mr. LeGrand

           9   would continually talk to you about what was

          10   occurring with Michael Jackson and seek your advice?

          11       A.  That's correct.

          12       Q.  And did he do that?

          13       A.  Yes, he did.

          14       Q.  You complained about Al Malnik, correct?

          15       A.  I complained about -- well, I don't know if

          16   "complained" is the right word.  But I told Mr.

          17   LeGrand that I was afraid that a high-profile public

          18   association with Mr. Malnik, compounded with

          19   everything else that Mr. Jackson had going on, would

          20   be very detrimental to him, yes, I did.

          21       Q.  Did you discuss with Mr. LeGrand that Al

          22   Malnik had connections with Sony?

          23       A.  I don't remember ever discussing that with

          24   Mr. LeGrand.

          25       Q.  Did you and Mr. LeGrand ever discuss Al

          26   Malnik's connection to the catalog?

          27       A.  I don't remember.

          28       Q.  Now, you indicated to the sheriffs, and I


                                                                 461






           1   believe you testified today that Mr. Geragos wanted

           2   you to sign a private investigator's nondisclosure,

           3   correct?

           4       A.  That's correct, sir.

           5       Q.  And was it your understanding that he wanted

           6   to call you a private investigator?

           7       A.  I had no understanding.  I can just tell you

           8   what he said to me.  That's all.

           9       Q.  But, I mean, was your reaction to this,

          10   "He's trying to make me look like a private

          11   investigator so everything is confidential"?  Is

          12   that the idea?

          13       A.  Um --

          14       Q.  Is that what you thought?  Let me rephrase

          15   the question.  It's an awkward question.

          16           I gather Mr. Geragos told you he wanted you

          17   to sign this form, true?

          18       A.  That's correct.

          19       Q.  And your understanding was it was a

          20   nondisclosure form, right?

          21       A.  I -- I don't think "nondisclosure" would

          22   cover it.  I think it was ratcheted up -- you know,

          23   a step up from a nondisclosure.

          24       Q.  Well, correct me if I'm wrong, you told the

          25   Santa Barbara sheriffs that Mr. Geragos wanted to

          26   bring you in under a private investigator's

          27   nondisclosure.  Does that sound right?

          28       A.  Yeah.  I don't remember using the word


                                                                 462






           1   "nondisclosure," but, yes.

           2       Q.  And when he talked to you about this, was it

           3   your belief that he wanted you to sign something

           4   that pledged you to confidentiality?

           5       A.  It sounded to me like it was pledging me to

           6   more than confidentiality.

           7       Q.  Well, and it was going to be under the guise

           8   that you were somehow an investigator, right?

           9       A.  I don't know what it would be under the

          10   guise of.  I just --

          11       Q.  Well, let me just ask you this:  What did he

          12   tell you about that?

          13       A.  He said to me exactly what I said.  He asked

          14   me to stay in town overnight.  He wanted me to come

          15   into the office the next day.  He wanted me to sign

          16   the private investigator's agreement, and then he

          17   would fill me in on everything that was going on.

          18       Q.  Okay.  And you didn't feel good about that,

          19   right?

          20       A.  No, sir, I did not.

          21       Q.  Something seemed wrong with that?

          22       A.  Yes, sir, it did.

          23       Q.  Because you're not a private investigator,

          24   right?

          25       A.  That's correct.

          26       Q.  You didn't like the idea you'd sign

          27   something that said you were something you're not,

          28   right?


                                                                 463






           1       A.  That was part of it.

           2       Q.  Okay.  You also didn't want to be "gagged,"

           3   as you used the word with the sheriffs, right?

           4       A.  That's correct.

           5       Q.  You wanted to be free to discuss your work

           6   with anyone you wanted?

           7       A.  No, that's not true.  I put together the

           8   situation that happened the day before with Marc

           9   Schaffel calling me about Janet Arvizo.  24 hours

          10   later, Mr. Geragos is telling me that -- after I had

          11   already spoken to Ronald and asked him about the

          12   situation, spoken to David, and David said he

          13   couldn't talk to me about it right now.  Then Mr.

          14   Geragos is asking me to stick around 24 more hours

          15   and come in and sign something and he would talk to

          16   me.  I didn't know what it meant.

          17           But obviously I wasn't -- obviously I didn't

          18   go around talking to the press about it, because it

          19   didn't get out, so....

          20       Q.  Actually, you had signed an agreement at

          21   some point to be a public relations person with the

          22   team, didn't you?

          23       A.  Yes, sir, I did.

          24       Q.  That actually had a confidentiality clause,

          25   didn't it?

          26       A.  I don't believe it did, sir.

          27       Q.  Didn't have any?

          28       A.  No.


                                                                 464






           1       Q.  So when you signed an agreement, you thought

           2   you were free to say whatever you wanted that you

           3   heard from that team?

           4       A.  I did not have a confidentiality agreement

           5   in that agreement.  But that didn't mean I was

           6   seeking to actively breach a confidence.

           7       Q.  Well, you talked in your direct examination

           8   about an agreement.

           9       A.  Yes, sir.

          10       Q.  And you signed a consulting agreement,

          11   didn't you?

          12       A.  Yes, I believe so.

          13       Q.  And you probably sign them in your work

          14   quite often, true?

          15       A.  Yes, I do.  But I remember looking at this

          16   one at Mr. LeGrand's office and there wasn't

          17   anything in there about confidentiality, in that

          18   agreement.

          19       Q.  Okay.  Did you have further discussions with

          20   Mr. Geragos?

          21       A.  After that day?

          22       Q.  Yes.

          23       A.  No.

          24       Q.  Now, you don't know how often Mr. Geragos

          25   spoke to Mr. Jackson, do you?

          26       A.  No, sir, I don't.

          27       Q.  So if Mr. Geragos hardly ever saw Mr.

          28   Jackson or talked to him, you wouldn't know one way


                                                                 465






           1   or the other, right?

           2       A.  No, sir, I wouldn't.

           3       Q.  Mr. Geragos told you, "I want to see if I

           4   can keep you on the team," didn't he?

           5       A.  Yes, he did, sir.

           6       Q.  And when did that discussion happen?

           7       A.  I don't remember.

           8       Q.  You told Mr. Jackson you were concerned

           9   about Konitzer, Weizner, and Schaffel, right?

          10       A.  Again, I wouldn't have said Dieter's name.

          11   But, yes, I believe I told him that.

          12       Q.  As I think you know in this report --

          13       A.  I understand it says that.  I know.  I just

          14   want to make sure that you know.

          15       Q.  Okay.  But you told Mr. Geragos you were

          16   concerned about what Konitzer and Schaffel were

          17   doing, right?

          18       A.  I believe so, yes.

          19       Q.  And you arranged to meet with Mr. Geragos on

          20   some future dates, right?

          21       A.  Yes, I did.

          22       Q.  And they never happened, right?

          23       A.  No, they did not.

          24       Q.  To your knowledge, why did they get

          25   cancelled?

          26       A.  Mr. Geragos told me that he was in court.

          27       Q.  Any other reasons?

          28       A.  Not to my knowledge, no.


                                                                 466






           1       Q.  Didn't you tell the Santa Barbara sheriffs

           2   that you quit pursuing a meeting with Mr. Geragos

           3   because there were more things that LeGrand was

           4   telling you and you had more distrust for Mr.

           5   Geragos?

           6       A.  That's correct.  I thought you were asking

           7   me about on Mr. Geragos's part why they didn't

           8   happen.  Yes, that's correct.

           9       Q.  And your understanding was that Mr. LeGrand

          10   didn't trust Mr. Geragos, correct?

          11       A.  That's what he told me, yes, that's correct.

          12       Q.  And one of the reasons he told you he didn't

          13   trust Mr. Geragos was he thought Mr. Geragos was

          14   tight with Mr. Malnik, true?

          15       A.  I don't remember.

          16       Q.  Well, he told you that he thought Mr.

          17   Geragos was being paid by Al Malnik, correct?

          18       A.  But that was after.  You're taking two

          19   instances and juxtaposing them.

          20       Q.  Okay.

          21           THE BAILIFF:  Mr. Mesereau, is your

          22   microphone on?

          23           MR. MESEREAU:  I haven't looked.

          24           THE COURT:  Oh, has he been talking?

          25           (Laughter.)

          26           THE BAILIFF:  We'll fix it at the break.

          27           MR. MESEREAU:  We'll start again, Your

          28   Honor.


                                                                 467






           1           (Laughter.)

           2           THE COURT:  Did you hear that?  Screams of

           3   protest from the jury.

           4           MR. MESEREAU:  Doesn't work at all.

           5           THE BAILIFF:  Do you want me to fix it now

           6   or wait till the break?

           7           THE COURT:  Actually, he's heard quite well,

           8   I think.  Do people in the back hear him?

           9           A VOICE FROM THE AUDIENCE:  No.

          10           THE COURT:  You should signal if you can't

          11   hear.

          12           A VOICE FROM THE AUDIENCE:  We did; we have.

          13           THE BAILIFF:  They have been, and I turned

          14   the air conditioner off.

          15           THE COURT:  You've been working on it, okay.

          16           (Discussion off the record.)

          17           THE COURT:  Why don't you call.

          18           THE BAILIFF:  I did call.

          19           BAILIFF NARRON:  She did.  I thought in the

          20   meantime they could use that one.

          21           THE COURT:  Why don't you say something so we

          22   can see if they can hear you in the back.

          23           MR. MESEREAU:  "Hello; hello."

          24           A VOICE FROM THE AUDIENCE:  Very good.

          25           MR. MESEREAU:  Thank you.

          26       Q.  Ms. Kite, you told the sheriffs that, from

          27   the outside looking in, your opinion was that

          28   Michael Jackson did not know the things that


                                                                 468






           1   Konitzer and the team were doing around them, right?

           2       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

           3           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection; requires

           4   speculation.  She's never met Michael Jackson.

           5   There's no way she could have knowledge of what Mr.

           6   Jackson knows.

           7           THE COURT:  Overruled.

           8           THE WITNESS:  Yes, sir, that's correct.  I

           9   said that.

          10       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  Now, did you say before

          11   that you had never issued any press releases while

          12   you worked for the team?

          13       A.  I wrote a press release, but I don't believe

          14   it ever went out on the wires.

          15       Q.  Okay.  Didn't you tell the Santa Barbara

          16   sheriffs that you personally wrote various press

          17   releases that went out and got the approval from

          18   Schaffel?

          19       A.  I don't believe -- I wrote press releases

          20   and I sent them to Marc Schaffel for approval, but

          21   they did not go out.

          22       Q.  None of them went out?

          23       A.  No.  Not to my knowledge, no.

          24       Q.  Did you tell the police that some went out?

          25       A.  I don't believe that I said that they went

          26   out or they didn't.  I remember saying that I wrote

          27   the releases and I got -- you know, sent them to

          28   Marc Schaffel for approval.


                                                                 469






           1       Q.  Would it refresh your recollection if I just

           2   show you the report?

           3       A.  You can show me the report, but I don't --

           4   if that's what it says, I don't remember saying that

           5   they did or didn't.  I distinctly remember writing

           6   the releases and sending them to Mr. Schaffel for

           7   approval, and Mr. Konitzer.

           8       Q.  And you told the Santa Barbara sheriffs you

           9   don't think Michael Jackson even knew about these

          10   releases, correct?

          11       A.  That's correct, yes, I did.

          12           THE COURT:  Just a moment.

          13           (To a sound technician) Why don't you just

          14   wait till the break.  And then you'll be better able

          15   to -- 15 minutes.

          16           Go ahead.

          17           MR. MESEREAU:  Oh.  I thought we were taking

          18   a break.  Excuse me, Your Honor.

          19           THE COURT:  No, I wanted -- I didn't want him

          20   to try and fix that while you were trying to ask

          21   questions.  We have sound right now, so --

          22       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  Do you know someone named

          23   Jermaine Jackson?

          24       A.  Yes, I do.

          25       Q.  Who is Jermaine Jackson?

          26       A.  Jermaine is Michael's brother.

          27       Q.  Do you know him personally?

          28       A.  Yes, I do.


                                                                 470






           1       Q.  How do you know him personally?

           2       A.  I met with him.

           3       Q.  Approximately when was that?

           4       A.  I believe in April of 2003.

           5       Q.  And did you arrange that meeting?

           6       A.  Mr. Jackson and I, Jermaine Jackson and I,

           7   spoke on the phone and arranged it together, yes.

           8       Q.  Did you call him?

           9       A.  He called me initially.

          10       Q.  Okay.  Do you know how he got your number?

          11       A.  Yes, from Rita Cosby at FOX.

          12       Q.  Did you meet with Jermaine?

          13       A.  Yes, I did.

          14       Q.  Where did you meet with him?

          15       A.  At his home in Encino, California.

          16       Q.  You told Jermaine Jackson that Al Malnik and

          17   other people pretended to be Michael's friends, but

          18   were not, true?

          19           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection; hearsay.

          20           THE COURT:  Overruled.

          21           You may answer.

          22           THE WITNESS:  I don't remember saying that to

          23   Mr. Jackson.

          24       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  You met with Jermaine

          25   Jackson for approximately six or seven hours, right?

          26       A.  For several hours, yes.

          27       Q.  And you told the Santa Barbara sheriffs

          28   about that meeting, true?


                                                                 471






           1       A.  Yes, that's correct.  I did.

           2       Q.  And you mentioned Al Malnik, correct?

           3       A.  Yes, I did.

           4       Q.  You mentioned Konitzer, correct?

           5       A.  Yes, I did.

           6       Q.  You mentioned Geragos, correct?

           7       A.  I don't remember if I mentioned Geragos.  I

           8   don't remember.

           9       Q.  You mentioned Schaffel, didn't you?

          10       A.  Yes, absolutely I did.

          11       Q.  You told Jermaine Jackson, "These people are

          12   not your brother Michael's friends," right?

          13       A.  I don't remember that those were my exact

          14   words.

          15       Q.  Would it refresh your recollection if I just

          16   show you the report?

          17       A.  Sure you can.

          18           MR. MESEREAU:  May I approach, Your Honor?

          19           THE COURT:  Yes.

          20           THE WITNESS:  That's not what it says.  It

          21   says I told you about him and other people that were

          22   not Michael Jackson's friends, but it doesn't say --

          23   it doesn't quote me as saying that --

          24           THE COURT:  Wait.  When he shows you to

          25   refresh your memory, just look at it, and then you

          26   can tell him whether or not it does refresh your

          27   memory.

          28           THE WITNESS:  Okay.  Okay.


                                                                 472






           1       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  Have you had a chance to

           2   look at that police report?

           3       A.  Yes, I have.

           4       Q.  And did you tell Jermaine about Al Malnik

           5   and other people that were Michael Jackson's friends

           6   but were really not?

           7       A.  I did not say it in those terms.  I told Mr.

           8   Jermaine Jackson about people that were associated

           9   with Mr. Jackson, but I don't -- and I did not say

          10   and it does not quote me in there as saying that

          11   these people were Mr. Jackson's friends but were

          12   really not.  That's not what it quotes me as saying.

          13       Q.  Well, I want to ask you if this is a correct

          14   quote:  "Gabriel said she told Jermaine Jackson

          15   about Al Malnik and other people that were Michael

          16   Jackson's friends but were really not."  Did you say

          17   anything to that effect?

          18       A.  That is not a direct quote from me.  That's

          19   not how it reads.

          20       Q.  Did you say words to that effect?

          21       A.  I told Mr. Jermaine Jackson about people

          22   that were associated with Mr. -- with Mr. Michael

          23   Jackson that I felt were detrimental to him.  But I

          24   don't believe I ever said they were pretending to be

          25   his friend, but they're really not.

          26       Q.  So these words are wrong that I just read

          27   you?

          28       A.  The exact word using them as a quote is


                                                                 473






           1   wrong, yes.

           2       Q.  Yes.  Yes.  Now, Mr. Jackson's mother was at

           3   the meeting, correct?

           4       A.  Mr. Jackson's mother was at the house.

           5       Q.  Was she at the meeting?

           6       A.  No, she wasn't.

           7       Q.  Did you ever speak to her that day?

           8       A.  Yes, I did.

           9       Q.  And how long did you speak to her?

          10       A.  Just for a minute or two.

          11       Q.  Did Mr. Jermaine Jackson introduce you to

          12   Michael's mother?

          13       A.  Yes, he did.  And to his wife also.

          14       Q.  Okay.  Is it true the meeting went six or

          15   seven hours?

          16       A.  I was there for about six hours, yes.

          17       Q.  Okay.  And you told the Santa Barbara

          18   sheriffs Jermaine was in a complete state of denial

          19   about the people around Michael Jackson, right?

          20       A.  That's what I felt, yes.

          21       Q.  And you told Jermaine words to the effect,

          22   "These people are taking advantage of Michael

          23   Jackson," true?

          24       A.  I told Jermaine Jackson that I believed,

          25   especially Marc Schaffel and his continued

          26   association with Mr. Michael Jackson, was going to

          27   be very detrimental to him, yes.  And Mr. Jackson

          28   told me that his brother didn't associate with those


                                                                 474






           1   type of people.

           2       Q.  Okay.  You told Jermaine Jackson you thought

           3   Michael needed to be around his family and away from

           4   these people, right?

           5       A.  Yes, I did.

           6       Q.  And you felt frustrated that you weren't

           7   getting through to Jermaine about your concerns,

           8   right?

           9       A.  I don't believe "frustrated" would -- I felt

          10   sad.

          11       Q.  You told the Santa Barbara sheriffs you

          12   thought that Michael Jackson's lawyers would just

          13   shut you up if you complained to them, correct?

          14       A.  I told them that I didn't believe it would

          15   do me any good to talk to Mr. Jackson's lawyers

          16   about what was going on, because they wouldn't want

          17   to hear anything I had to say, yes, that's correct.

          18       Q.  And when you say "Michael Jackson's

          19   lawyers," are you talking about Mr. Geragos?

          20       A.  Yes.

          21       Q.  Are you talking about Mr. LeGrand?

          22       A.  No.  I mean, David always listened to what I

          23   had to say, so, no.

          24       Q.  How long after this meeting with Jermaine

          25   Jackson did you learn that Mr. LeGrand had started a

          26   private investigation of whether or not these people

          27   were defrauding Michael Jackson?

          28       A.  The investigation was started before the


                                                                 475






           1   meeting with Mr. Jackson.

           2       Q.  Okay.  And did you discuss that

           3   investigation with David LeGrand.

           4       A.  The investigation that he started?

           5       Q.  Yes.

           6       A.  As it was ongoing?

           7       Q.  Yes.

           8       A.  Not to my knowledge, no.

           9       Q.  Did he tell you that he had suspicions that

          10   these people were stealing from Michael Jackson at

          11   some point?

          12       A.  He told me that he had called the

          13   accountants and got them to give him some

          14   information without Mr. Konitzer's knowledge, and

          15   that's how he figured out that there was an amount

          16   of money missing.

          17       Q.  Okay.  But at some point did he say to you

          18   words to the effect, "I'm hiring a top-flight

          19   investigative firm to investigate all of these

          20   people, because I think they're stealing from

          21   Michael Jackson"?

          22       A.  No.

          23           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection; hearsay.

          24           THE COURT:  Overruled.

          25           THE WITNESS:  No, he did not.  We were on

          26   the phone.  And he told me to call his managing

          27   partner and ask him to begin an investigation into

          28   these people.


                                                                 476






           1       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  Okay.

           2       A.  And I sent an e-mail to the managing partner

           3   and said, "David asked me to e-mail -- to contact

           4   you and," you know, "begin an investigation."

           5       Q.  Okay.  Okay.  Now, you considered going to

           6   the police to tell them what was being done to Mr.

           7   Jackson, didn't you?

           8       A.  No, sir, I did not.

           9       Q.  Well, you told the Santa Barbara sheriffs

          10   that you didn't go to the tabloids or the police to

          11   tell them your story, right?

          12       A.  That's correct.  Yes.

          13       Q.  But you had considered it, right?

          14       A.  Oh, no.  I had no information or hard

          15   knowledge to go to the police with.  And I certainly

          16   would never go to the tabloids with a story.

          17       Q.  When you told the Santa Barbara sheriffs you

          18   were concerned about what these people were doing to

          19   Michael Jackson, you also mentioned the names Frank

          20   and Vinnie, correct?

          21       A.  Yes, I believe I mentioned the names.

          22       Q.  And you told them you had heard Frank and

          23   Vinnie were involved with these individuals who you

          24   thought were defrauding Michael Jackson, correct?

          25       A.  No, I said I had heard the names.  But I

          26   don't -- don't remember specifically commenting on

          27   the capacity of their involvement with Mr. Jackson.

          28       Q.  Okay.  You told the police you had no


                                                                 477






           1   further information on Frank and Vinnie?

           2       A.  That's correct, I did.

           3       Q.  You also told the sheriffs that Stuart

           4   Backerman was brought in by Konitzer and you thought

           5   he would do anything Konitzer wanted, right?

           6       A.  Yes, I did.

           7       Q.  So clearly, you thought Mr. Backerman was

           8   harming Mr. Jackson, right?

           9       A.  Yes, I did.

          10       Q.  Okay.  Did you think he was dishonest?

          11       A.  I -- I believed that anyone who would put

          12   out a press release on himself above serving the

          13   press interests of Mr. Jackson at a critical time

          14   was just not someone who would serve Mr. Jackson in

          15   the capacity that he deserved.

          16       Q.  Okay.  I guess it goes without saying, you

          17   thought that Mr. Backerman's public relations

          18   efforts were harming Mr. Jackson; does that make

          19   sense?

          20       A.  I didn't believe they were helping Mr.

          21   Jackson.

          22       Q.  Okay.  You felt he was putting his personal

          23   interests ahead of his client Michael Jackson?

          24       A.  Yes, sir, I did.

          25       Q.  Okay.  Did you ever tell that to Backerman

          26   directly?

          27       A.  No, sir.  I did -- Stuart and I had a

          28   conversation a few days earlier.  He was extremely


                                                                 478






           1   upset because someone had quoted -- used my name in

           2   a newspaper and quoted me as being Mr. Jackson's

           3   spokesperson.  And he called me to yell at me about

           4   that.

           5           And I told him that this was not the time to

           6   nitpick about stuff like that; that I never asked to

           7   be called Mr. Jackson's official spokesperson.  And

           8   that when the fire was burning, it was time to roll

           9   up the sleeves and pitch in and not worry about such

          10   petty things.

          11       Q.  When you met with Jermaine Jackson,

          12   Michael's brother, at the home, how long after you

          13   had been terminated did this happen?

          14       A.  Several weeks.  Maybe six weeks.  I don't

          15   remember.  Four weeks.  Somewhere around there.

          16       Q.  So it was pretty close to the time that you

          17   were terminated?

          18       A.  Yes, uh-huh.

          19       Q.  But in this six-day period that you were

          20   working with this team, you appear to have obtained

          21   an awful lot of information about the team, correct?

          22       A.  Yes, that's correct.

          23       Q.  Your information came a lot -- excuse me.

          24   Your information about this team came from many

          25   discussions with David LeGrand, true?

          26       A.  Yes.

          27       Q.  And those discussions preceded your joining

          28   the team, right?


                                                                 479






           1       A.  Not -- David didn't really discuss

           2   information with me about the team per se before I

           3   joined the team.  So I had no preconceived notions

           4   when I joined the team.

           5       Q.  After you left the team, you continued your

           6   discussions with David LeGrand, true?

           7       A.  Yes, that's correct.

           8       Q.  About the team, right?

           9       A.  In a manner of speaking, but not

          10   specifically.

          11       Q.  After you left the team, were you and

          12   LeGrand still close friends?

          13       A.  Yes, we were.

          14       Q.  Okay.  And you're close friends today,

          15   correct?

          16       A.  No, we're not.

          17       Q.  You're not close friends at all?

          18       A.  No, sir.

          19       Q.  Are you antagonists?

          20       A.  No, I wouldn't -- no.

          21       Q.  How would you describe your relationship?

          22   Just not a friendly one now?

          23       A.  The last time that David called me was the

          24   day that the Santa Barbara Police came to interview

          25   me.  And he left me a message and I didn't call him

          26   back.  I didn't return the call.  And -- because I

          27   didn't -- I didn't want to be put into -- in a bad

          28   position.


                                                                 480






           1       Q.  Did the Santa Barbara sheriffs tell you not

           2   to speak to anybody about the interview?

           3       A.  Not to speak with anybody at all?

           4       Q.  About your interview, yes.

           5       A.  No, I don't remember that they said that to

           6   me, no.  No, sir.

           7       Q.  Okay.  So correct me if I'm wrong, he tried

           8   to reach you on March 11th, 2004, and you didn't

           9   return the call, right?

          10       A.  That's correct.

          11       Q.  And you haven't talked to him since, right?

          12       A.  No, sir, that's correct.

          13       Q.  Okay.  Do you still do any public relations

          14   work for his firm or him?

          15       A.  No, sir.

          16       Q.  When did your public relations work for him

          17   stop?

          18       A.  Visibly, I would say probably sometime

          19   around the beginning of April.  But throughout the

          20   summer and, you know, even up to around the time of

          21   the raid of the ranch, he would send me e-mails and

          22   ask me to check things out for him, or I would send

          23   him articles.

          24       Q.  Okay.  You told the Santa Barbara sheriffs

          25   that Backerman was more concerned with his own

          26   public relations than taking care of Michael

          27   Jackson, right?

          28       A.  Yes, I did.


                                                                 481






           1       Q.  And you still believe that, right?

           2       A.  Yes, I do.

           3       Q.  Now, did Backerman ask you to help him with

           4   his own press release about what a great guy he was?

           5       A.  Oh, God, no, he didn't.

           6       Q.  Did you see that -- did you see that press

           7   release by surprise, or how did you learn about it?

           8       A.  I saw it in the newspaper, yeah.

           9       Q.  Was this during the six days you worked for

          10   Michael?

          11       A.  Yes, sir, it was.  I believe it was the 13th

          12   of February.

          13       Q.  And was it announcing that Mr. Backerman

          14   will be doing PR for Michael Jackson?

          15       A.  Yes, sir, it was.

          16       Q.  And you don't know if Backerman's ever met

          17   Michael Jackson, do you?

          18       A.  No, sir, I don't.

          19       Q.  Certainly in any discussions you had with

          20   Mr. Backerman, Michael wasn't there, right?

          21       A.  That's correct.  If he was, I think he would

          22   have been very upset.

          23       Q.  Now, you told the police that Backerman was

          24   upset that there was an article about you in the New

          25   York Times saying that you represented Michael,

          26   right?

          27       A.  That's correct.  It wasn't an article.  It

          28   was a quote.  I had received an overflow, what we


                                                                 482






           1   called an overflow call from a reporter who was

           2   looking for a quote on a story that he was going to

           3   run.  I did not identify myself to that reporter as

           4   his spokesperson, and -- but when the report was

           5   printed, that's how it quoted me.  And Mr. Backerman

           6   was extremely, extremely annoyed about that.

           7       Q.  Okay.  What did he say to you?

           8       A.  He said, "How could you go around telling

           9   people that you're Mr. Jackson's spokesperson?  I'm

          10   his official spokesperson, not you."

          11       Q.  And what was your response?

          12       A.  I won't give you my verbatim response.  But

          13   my response basically was, "Stuart, it was a call

          14   that I took.  I never told anyone that I am Mr.

          15   Jackson's official spokesperson.  This -- our client

          16   is in severe trouble and this is not the time to be

          17   wasting an hour or so on the phone arguing about

          18   something so petty as this."

          19       Q.  And did you tell the sheriffs where

          20   Backerman was staying at that point in time?

          21       A.  Yes, sir, I did.

          22       Q.  Where did you tell the Santa Barbara

          23   sheriffs that Backerman was staying?

          24       A.  At Mr. Schaffel's house.

          25       Q.  How did you learn that?

          26       A.  From Mr. Backerman and from David LeGrand.

          27       Q.  You've indicated that you thought

          28   Schaffel -- excuse me, not "you thought."  You were


                                                                 483






           1   told Schaffel's in charge of public relations at one

           2   point, right?

           3       A.  Yes, sir.

           4       Q.  Backerman told you he's in charge of public

           5   relations at one point, didn't he?

           6       A.  No, Backerman never said he was in charge of

           7   public relations.

           8       Q.  What did he say his role was?

           9       A.  He was Mr. Jackson's official spokesperson.

          10       Q.  And he told you that he was Mr. Jackson's

          11   official spokesperson while living at Mr. Schaffel's

          12   place; is that correct?

          13       A.  Yes.

          14       Q.  And, of course, you don't know if -- if

          15   Backerman even cleared anything ever with Michael

          16   Jackson.  You don't know?

          17       A.  I have no idea if Mr. Backerman ever spoke

          18   with Mr. Jackson, no.

          19       Q.  Your suspicion was he was issuing press

          20   releases without Mr. Jackson even knowing about it,

          21   right?

          22       A.  Stuart never, to my knowledge, during the

          23   time I was there, issued a press release either.  No

          24   releases except for Bell Yard's went out at that

          25   time.

          26       Q.  Okay.  And you told the sheriffs that you

          27   didn't think Konitzer even filled in Backerman about

          28   all the information he had?


                                                                 484






           1       A.  That's correct.  Yes, I did.

           2       Q.  So you thought Backerman was being left in

           3   the dark about what Konitzer was doing, right?

           4       A.  I believed that there was an intense lack of

           5   communication among the team that could have worked

           6   to Mr. Jackson's benefit to help quench some of the

           7   fires.

           8       Q.  So what you wanted was a better team, a team

           9   with more integrity, correct?

          10       A.  What I wanted was a team that would be

          11   extremely proactive on Mr. Jackson's benefit.

          12       Q.  And you felt this team was putting their own

          13   interests ahead of Mr. Jackson's?

          14       A.  Yes, sir, I did.

          15           THE COURT:  Let's take our break.

          16           (Recess taken.)

          17           THE COURT:  Counsel?

          18           MR. MESEREAU:  Yes.  Thank you, Your Honor.

          19       Q.  Ms. Kite, you told the Santa Barbara

          20   sheriffs that you have no personal knowledge of

          21   anything Michael Jackson has done, correct?

          22       A.  That's correct, yes.

          23       Q.  You told them you had no personal knowledge

          24   that any molestation ever took place with Michael

          25   Jackson, correct?

          26       A.  That's correct, yes.

          27       Q.  You also told them you had no personal

          28   knowledge about Janet Arvizo ever being kidnapped,


                                                                 485






           1   correct?

           2       A.  Other than what I heard from Marc Schaffel

           3   and my own feelings.

           4       Q.  You told the police that you may be wrong,

           5   you may have overreacted, and maybe there was no

           6   kidnapping, right?

           7       A.  That was always a possibility, but that's

           8   not what I believed.

           9       Q.  Well, you told the police that, in your

          10   mind, maybe you're wrong; maybe you overreacted;

          11   maybe there was no kidnapping at all, right?

          12       A.  That's what I said, yes.

          13       Q.  Okay.  For obvious reasons.  You weren't

          14   there.

          15       A.  That's correct.

          16       Q.  Okay.  You told them you can't imagine what

          17   it's like to be in a cage and watched all the time,

          18   right?

          19       A.  That's correct, yes.

          20       Q.  You told the sheriffs that you were on the

          21   phone with LeGrand and Schaffel when NBC was

          22   negotiating for footage regarding the rebuttal tape,

          23   right?

          24       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          25       Q.  And that's the footage that eventually went

          26   to FOX, correct?

          27       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          28       Q.  That's the footage that was produced in


                                                                 486






           1   response to the Bashir documentary, correct?

           2       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

           3       Q.  And you said that LeGrand issued a statement

           4   to the press that Geragos ordered to make NBC look

           5   bad, right?

           6       A.  No, that's not what I said.  That's --

           7   that's not what I said.  If you'd like me to explain

           8   that incident to you, I'd be glad to.

           9       Q.  Is that wrong, what I just said?  I'm just

          10   looking at the report.  Is that wrong?

          11       A.  You're taking it out of context.  Yes, it's

          12   wrong.

          13       Q.  Would it refresh your recollection if I just

          14   show you the paragraph?

          15       A.  You can show me the paragraph.  I know what

          16   it's referring to, and it's a summary of what I

          17   said, and it's not correct.

          18       Q.  Okay.  I didn't summarize it.

          19       A.  That's okay.  I'm just letting you know.

          20       Q.  Okay.  Okay.  Did you complain that Mr.

          21   Geragos wanted to make NBC look bad?

          22       A.  No.  I didn't say anything about Mr. Geragos

          23   trying to make NBC look bad, no.

          24       Q.  Do you know where the sheriffs got that

          25   remark?

          26       A.  I said it about Mr. Schaffel, not about Mr.

          27   Geragos.

          28       Q.  Okay.


                                                                 487






           1       A.  And Mr. Geragos gave the okay to release the

           2   information.

           3       Q.  Okay.  Did you tell the sheriffs that Mr.

           4   Geragos gave the okay to release information that

           5   was damaging to NBC?

           6       A.  Yes, I did.

           7       Q.  And correct me if I'm wrong, I think what

           8   you're saying is that Schaffel prepared that

           9   information, right?

          10       A.  What I'm saying is that Schaffel spoke with

          11   Mr. Geragos and Mr. LeGrand and pushed for the

          12   information to be released.

          13       Q.  Okay.

          14       A.  Yes.

          15       Q.  And did you object to releasing that

          16   information?

          17       A.  I didn't know about it when it happened.

          18   But when I found out, I objected vigorously, yes.

          19       Q.  Was that because you didn't want to make NBC

          20   look bad?

          21       A.  It was because I felt it was bad precedent,

          22   period.

          23       Q.  Okay.  Was it your understanding that

          24   Schaffel and Mr. Geragos were trying to make NBC

          25   look bad?

          26       A.  It was my understanding that Mr. Schaffel in

          27   particular was trying to make NBC look bad.

          28       Q.  But you thought Mr. Geragos had okayed it?


                                                                 488






           1       A.  David LeGrand told me that the okay came

           2   from Mr. Geragos.

           3       Q.  Okay.  And you said you wanted to publicly

           4   exonerate NBC and CBS, true?

           5       A.  I remember saying NBC, but I don't remember

           6   saying CBS.

           7       Q.  Okay.  You wanted to somehow make up for the

           8   fact that NBC ended up looking bad?

           9       A.  No, I didn't want to make up for it.  I felt

          10   terrible for the fallout that NBC received based on

          11   the memo that Mr. Schaffel arranged to have

          12   released.  It wasn't right and it wasn't fair.

          13       Q.  Okay.  And did Schaffel tell you why he

          14   wanted to do this?

          15       A.  I knew why he wanted to do it.  He didn't

          16   have to tell me.

          17       Q.  What did he tell you about it?

          18       A.  Well, he was upset because NBC was producing

          19   another special about Mr. Jackson and they were

          20   referring to Mr. Schaffel's past.

          21       Q.  Okay.  Okay.  And Mr. Schaffel also was

          22   upset that he wasn't getting any profit from that

          23   show, correct?

          24       A.  I don't know if he would have gotten profits

          25   from the NBC show or not.  I don't know.

          26       Q.  Okay.  All right.  Did you believe Mr.

          27   Backerman was involved in that effort?

          28       A.  In what effort?


                                                                 489






           1       Q.  The effort by Schaffel and Geragos.

           2       A.  To NBC?

           3       Q.  Yes.

           4       A.  To release that memo?

           5       Q.  Yes.

           6       A.  No, I don't believe so.

           7       Q.  Okay.  Now, at some point you told the

           8   sheriffs that Geragos brought in another PR firm; is

           9   that right?

          10       A.  That's correct.

          11       Q.  Who was that?

          12       A.  Eric Dezenhall.

          13       Q.  From Washington D.C.?

          14       A.  Yes, I did.

          15       Q.  Did you ever speak to him?

          16       A.  Yes, I did.

          17       Q.  When did you last speak to him?

          18       A.  Probably in April of that same year, 2003.

          19       Q.  And did you speak to him about the work he

          20   was going to do?

          21       A.  I spoke to him -- David had asked me to

          22   speak to him about several different things.

          23       Q.  Okay.  And you complained that Mr. Dezenhall

          24   told you that Mr. Jackson is not socially relevant?

          25       A.  Yes, he did say that.

          26       Q.  And you were upset that a public relations

          27   spokesperson would ever say that about a client,

          28   right?


                                                                 490






           1       A.  Yes, I was.

           2       Q.  You were particularly upset that he would

           3   say that about his new client, Michael Jackson,

           4   right?

           5       A.  I was upset because I didn't believe, no

           6   matter what, that there would ever come a time that

           7   Mr. Jackson wasn't socially relevant.

           8       Q.  And you don't know if Mr. Dezenhall ever met

           9   or spoke to Mr. Jackson, do you?

          10       A.  No, sir, I don't.

          11       Q.  Your understanding is simply that Mr.

          12   Geragos hired him?

          13       A.  Yes, sir, that's correct.

          14       Q.  You complained that Mr. Dezenhall shouldn't

          15   make a statement like that about Mr. Jackson, true?

          16       A.  I don't know that I complained, but I -- I

          17   would never make a statement about that about a

          18   client of mine, no matter what.

          19       Q.  You accused him of doing nothing and saying

          20   nothing, right?

          21       A.  I didn't accuse him.  I believed that he

          22   would be a very good fit for the team because he had

          23   the same hunker-down philosophy, the same philosophy

          24   of "Don't say anything.  Don't put anything out.  It

          25   doesn't matter what bad press is out there, we can't

          26   refute it.  We're already behind the eightball."

          27       Q.  Did you complain that you thought Mr.

          28   Dezenhall was throwing his client to the wolves?


                                                                 491






           1       A.  I don't remember saying that about Mr.

           2   Dezenhall.

           3       Q.  Did you use words to that effect?

           4       A.  I believe I said "the team," or I felt that

           5   basically that's what the team was doing to Mr.

           6   Jackson by not being proactive and responding for

           7   him in the press.

           8       Q.  Okay.  You complained that Mr. Konitzer

           9   wanted to build a website called "MJJ Invincible,"

          10   right?

          11       A.  I didn't complain.  I stated that when I was

          12   hired, Mr. Konitzer asked to put up a website, and

          13   the URL that he wanted to use was "MJJ Invincible."

          14   And I told him I thought that was highly

          15   inappropriate, given the backlash that was out there

          16   with all of the -- with the Bashir documentary and

          17   everything else going on.  I didn't believe that Mr.

          18   Jackson should put himself in that position to be

          19   subject to more ridicule from the press by having a

          20   website domain of that name.

          21       Q.  But you don't know if Mr. Jackson even knew

          22   about this idea, right?

          23       A.  No, sir, I don't.

          24       Q.  You said Konitzer was "out of his mind,"

          25   right?

          26       A.  Yes, I did.  I did.

          27       Q.  You said, "That's the last thing they should

          28   do," correct?


                                                                 492






           1       A.  That's absolutely what I said.

           2       Q.  Okay.  You thought that Mr. Schaffel was

           3   saying things to the press to get himself back in

           4   Michael Jackson's good graces, correct?

           5       A.  Yes, sir, I did.

           6       Q.  Because you knew that Mr. Schaffel was not

           7   in Michael Jackson's -- Michael Jackson's good

           8   graces, right?

           9           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection; requires

          10   speculation as to what she knew about Mr. Jackson's

          11   intent or knowledge.

          12           THE COURT:  Sustained.

          13       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  Did someone tell you that

          14   Marc Schaffel was not in Michael Jackson's good

          15   graces?

          16       A.  No one told me that specifically.

          17       Q.  Well, but you did tell the sheriffs you

          18   thought Schaffel was trying to get back into his

          19   good graces, true?

          20           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection; argumentative.

          21           THE COURT:  Sustained.

          22       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  You told the Santa Barbara

          23   sheriffs that Michael Jackson has a lot of talent

          24   but never matured past the age of 12, right?

          25       A.  I didn't say it that way, no, sir.

          26       Q.  You said something to that effect, didn't

          27   you?

          28       A.  No, what I said to him -- to the sheriffs,


                                                                 493






           1   when they spoke to me, was that I felt that Mr.

           2   Jackson was very talented, extremely talented, but

           3   the way that he was portrayed was that he hadn't

           4   matured past the age of 12.

           5       Q.  Okay.  And clearly, you didn't think this

           6   team was helping him deal with any of this, did you?

           7       A.  No, sir, I did not.

           8       Q.  You thought they were actually hurting him,

           9   didn't you?

          10       A.  Yes, sir, I did.

          11       Q.  Now, clearly you have never personally

          12   observed Mr. Jackson do anything wrong --

          13           THE COURT:  Counsel, you've asked that

          14   question ten times today.  I want you to look at the

          15   jury and realize that they're tired of listening to

          16   this.

          17           MR. MESEREAU:  Okay.

          18           THE COURT:  You know, the -- you need to

          19   grasp the evidence and present it, not keep

          20   repeating it.

          21           MR. MESEREAU:  Okay.  Yes, Your Honor.

          22           Just a few more questions.

          23       Q.  Did you send the team a series of letters

          24   that appeared to have favorable responses to the

          25   Bashir documentary by e-mail?

          26       A.  I don't know what you're referring to.

          27       Q.  Well, did you ever send to -- just one

          28   second.


                                                                 494






           1           May I just take a second, Your Honor?

           2           THE COURT:  Yes.

           3       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  When you first were

           4   retained, you were sending various e-mails to the

           5   team, correct?

           6       A.  Sending and receiving, yes.

           7       Q.  And you were trying to educate the team

           8   about responses to the Bashir documentary, correct?

           9       A.  I don't remember.

          10       Q.  Okay.  Do you remember what the subject of

          11   those e-mails was?

          12       A.  I don't remember, sir.  I sent a lot of

          13   e-mails during that time.

          14       Q.  Did you ever send an e-mail that basically

          15   said -- showed letters where people were saying they

          16   thought Mr. Jackson was being exploited in Bashir?

          17       A.  I don't remember.

          18       Q.  Okay.  Do you remember ever discussing that?

          19       A.  We may have discussed it as a way to attack

          20   Mr. Bashir.  But I don't remember.  I mean, part of

          21   the plan was to try to get Mr. Jackson's image

          22   rehabilitated.  So obviously anything that could

          23   show Mr. Bashir had ill intent towards Mr. Jackson

          24   would be very helpful to us.

          25       Q.  Did you investigate Mr. Bashir's background

          26   yourself?

          27       A.  No, sir, I didn't have the time.

          28       Q.  Did you plan to do that?


                                                                 495






           1       A.  Yes, sir, I did.

           2       Q.  Did you take any measures to do that at all?

           3       A.  No.  Not at the time, no.

           4       Q.  Did you hire anybody to do that?

           5       A.  No, sir, I didn't.

           6       Q.  Do you know Mr. Bashir?

           7       A.  No, sir, I do not.

           8           MR. MESEREAU:  Okay.  No further questions.

           9           THE COURT:  Thank you.

          10

          11                    REDIRECT EXAMINATION

          12   BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:

          13       Q.  Ms. Kite, you mentioned when you were

          14   referring to Mr. Dezenhall you had that hunker down

          15   approach?

          16       A.  Yes, I did.

          17       Q.  What did you mean by that?

          18       A.  Don't say anything to the press.  Don't

          19   talk.  If negative publicity comes out, you just

          20   brush it off and move on.

          21       Q.  Is that an uncommon philosophy in PR?

          22       A.  I think it's more uncommon, yes.

          23       Q.  Is it a nonexistent philosophy?  I mean, is

          24   it very rare, I should say?

          25       A.  I would think that it would be more rare

          26   than common.

          27       Q.  Okay.  Do some PR firms implement that

          28   philosophy?


                                                                 496






           1       A.  Yes, they do.

           2       Q.  Was it evident to you that that was the

           3   philosophy of the team?

           4       A.  Yes, it is.  Yes, it was.

           5       Q.  Including Bell Yard?

           6       A.  No, not Bell Yard.

           7       Q.  Okay.  Everybody with the exception of Bell

           8   Yard?

           9       A.  Yes, that's correct.

          10       Q.  And did you have an impression as to whether

          11   or not the team thought that was the best way to go

          12   about these things, whether or not --

          13       A.  Whether to hunker down or not?

          14       Q.  Yes.

          15       A.  My impression was that they didn't want to

          16   do anything.  They wanted to hunker down, because

          17   anything I asked to be able to do on behalf of Mr.

          18   Jackson I was told not to.

          19       Q.  Did you ever develop an impression as to why

          20   they wanted to hunker down?

          21       A.  My impression was that there was obviously

          22   something more important than Mr. Jackson's public

          23   relations going on.

          24       Q.  Okay.  You said that you've never met Mr.

          25   Jackson.

          26       A.  That's correct.

          27       Q.  And do you know if anybody from Bell Yard,

          28   that you dealt with, ever met Mr. Jackson?


                                                                 497






           1       A.  Not to my knowledge.

           2       Q.  And Mr. Backerman, you said, never met Mr.

           3   Jackson?

           4       A.  Not to my knowledge.

           5       Q.  Okay.  There was some -- a statement made to

           6   you by Mr. Schaffel concerning Janet selling her

           7   story to the tabloids.

           8       A.  Yes.

           9       Q.  Do you recall talking about that?

          10       A.  Uh-huh.

          11       Q.  Did you ever have any information or

          12   knowledge that Janet wanted to sell a story to the

          13   tabloids?

          14       A.  No, sir, I did not.

          15       Q.  Did you ever have any information that Janet

          16   even had a story to tell the tabloids?

          17       A.  No, sir, I did not.

          18       Q.  Did you question anybody about that?

          19   "What's this story about?"  Did you ever --

          20       A.  I thought it -- when Mr. Schaffel said that

          21   he was afraid she was going to sell her story to the

          22   tabloids, my first thought was, "What story?"  But I

          23   never really questioned anybody about it.

          24       Q.  You said that one of the witnesses, I

          25   believe it was -- well, I can't recall.  I believe

          26   you stated that Schaffel -- someone told you

          27   Schaffel hadn't seen Jackson for a couple of months.

          28       A.  Yes.  Mr. Konitzer told me that in a


                                                                 498






           1   telephone call.

           2       Q.  Do you know if that's true?

           3       A.  I have no direct knowledge of that.

           4       Q.  What was the context of that conversation?

           5       A.  I was, again, extremely concerned, because

           6   the media was raising questions about Mr. Schaffel's

           7   background, and I wanted to be able to answer them.

           8   And Mr. Konitzer, I kept telling him, "This is not a

           9   good thing to have Mr. Schaffel continuously linked

          10   with Mr. Jackson in the press.  We need to stop here

          11   this."  And he told me at that point that Mr.

          12   Schaffel hadn't seen Mr. Jackson for a couple of

          13   months.

          14       Q.  Okay.  But you have no idea whether that's

          15   true?

          16       A.  No, sir, I don't.

          17       Q.  Do you know anything about Mr. Schaffel's

          18   relationship with Mr. Jackson?

          19       A.  Not personally, no.

          20       Q.  As to how many times he talks to him or sees

          21   him or any of that?

          22       A.  No, I don't.

          23       Q.  What about Mr. Geragos's relationship with

          24   Mr. Jackson?  Do you have any knowledge as to how

          25   often they talk or dealt with each other during this

          26   point?

          27       A.  No, sir.

          28       Q.  Mr. Konitzer, same question.


                                                                 499






           1       A.  No, sir, I don't.  I know that Ronald

           2   portrayed to me that he stayed at the ranch, that he

           3   talked directly to Michael, but I couldn't tell you

           4   if that's true or not.

           5       Q.  No personal knowledge.  What about Mr.

           6   LeGrand?  Did he tell you whether or not he talked

           7   with Mr. Jackson?

           8       A.  Yes, he did.

           9       Q.  What did he say about that?

          10       A.  Told me that he had talked to Mr. Jackson;

          11   that he met him in Miami when he went to do the

          12   power of attorney; that he went to Neverland to be

          13   there on a day that they were supposed to tape a

          14   special with CBS that got cancelled.  And I don't

          15   remember the times after that, but I know there were

          16   other times after that.

          17       Q.  Did Mr. LeGrand have Mr. Jackson's phone

          18   number; do you know?

          19       A.  I'm sure he did.  I never asked him.

          20       Q.  Did Mr. LeGrand -- you stated that Mr.

          21   LeGrand expressed some concerns to you about these

          22   people that were around Mr. Jackson.  Did Mr.

          23   LeGrand ever express those concerns to Mr. Jackson,

          24   according to Mr. LeGrand?

          25       A.  Yes, he did.

          26       Q.  So he told you he did talk to Mr. Jackson

          27   about it?

          28       A.  Yes.


                                                                 500






           1       Q.  And informed him of the problems?

           2       A.  Yes, that's correct.

           3       Q.  When did this happen?

           4       A.  In March.  Mid March.

           5       Q.  You said that Mr. Konitzer had a power of

           6   attorney at some point?

           7       A.  Yes, that's correct.

           8       Q.  And do you know anything about the power of

           9   attorney?

          10       A.  The only thing that I know is David told me

          11   that it could be overridden at any time by the

          12   client and that it required two signatures.

          13       Q.  Okay.  So, two signatures; what does that

          14   mean?

          15       A.  I don't know.  That's just what he said.

          16       Q.  So the power of attorney required two

          17   signatures.  Could you tell whether or not he was

          18   talking about actions taken under the power of

          19   attorney or the power of attorney itself?

          20       A.  I couldn't tell you.

          21       Q.  Okay.  The FOX special.  First of all, who

          22   is Fire Mountain?  You testified briefly about Fire

          23   Mountain.

          24       A.  Fire Mountain is a corporation that David

          25   set up in Las Vegas.

          26       Q.  And who are the parties, the principals in

          27   that corporation?

          28           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; foundation.


                                                                 501






           1           THE COURT:  Sustained.

           2           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Okay.

           3       Q.  There was this NBC memo that Mr. Schaffel

           4   was upset about.  Do you know what that was all

           5   about?

           6       A.  What the memo was about?

           7       Q.  Yes.

           8       A.  Yes, the memo was --

           9           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.  Hearsay;

          10   foundation.

          11           THE COURT:  Sustained.

          12       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  You said that the FOX

          13   rebuttal program produced -- or there was a contract

          14   for that program to produce $3 million, correct?

          15       A.  Yes.

          16       Q.  Okay.  And you also said you believed some

          17   of that money went to Mr. Jackson?

          18       A.  Yes, I believe that.

          19       Q.  What did you base that on?

          20       A.  I just -- I guess based on what David said

          21   and -- I mean, I never saw money actually

          22   transferred into Mr. Jackson's hands, so --

          23       Q.  Did this transaction take place while you

          24   were working as a PR person?

          25       A.  Yes, it did.

          26       Q.  Were you upset about it?

          27       A.  Yes, I was.

          28       Q.  Why?


                                                                 502






           1       A.  Because I said that I didn't believe that

           2   Mr. Jackson should have to sell the proof of his

           3   innocence.

           4       Q.  Was that a PR move on your behalf?

           5       A.  Yes, absolutely.

           6       Q.  Did you express your concern to anybody?

           7       A.  Yes, I did.

           8       Q.  To whom?

           9       A.  To Mr. LeGrand.  To Mr. Schaffel.  To Mr.

          10   Konitzer.  To Bell Yard.

          11       Q.  Do you know why they didn't take your

          12   advice?

          13       A.  Yes, I did.

          14           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; calls for

          15   speculation.

          16           THE COURT:  Sustained.

          17       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Did they tell you why

          18   they wanted money for this?

          19       A.  Yes, they did.

          20       Q.  What did they say?

          21       A.  Because there was no money.

          22       Q.  What do you mean?

          23           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; the Court's

          24   ruling.

          25           THE COURT:  Sustained.

          26       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Was there any

          27   information -- you mentioned a number of fires

          28   burning, right?  What did you mean by that?


                                                                 503






           1       A.  Attacks on Mr. Jackson in the press.

           2       Q.  Okay.  Were there any attacks on Mr. Jackson

           3   in the press concerning finances --

           4       A.  Yes.

           5       Q.  -- his finances?

           6           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; the Court's

           7   ruling.

           8           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  I believe this door has

           9   been opened.

          10           MR. MESEREAU:  I don't think it has, Your

          11   Honor.

          12           THE COURT:  The question, as presented,

          13   I'll allow, and the answer that was given.  "Were

          14   there any attacks on Mr. Jackson in the press

          15   concerning finances?

          16           "Answer:  Yes."

          17           That's as far as you can go at this time on

          18   that subject.

          19           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  All right.

          20       Q.  Who did Mr. LeGrand -- he was an attorney.

          21   Who was he an attorney for?

          22       A.  Mr. Jackson.

          23       Q.  Anybody else, as far as you know?  I mean,

          24   in this relationship with Mr. Jackson, was he an

          25   attorney for a corporation of Mr. Jackson's, or any

          26   other entity involving Mr. Jackson?

          27       A.  I don't know.  I don't know.

          28       Q.  And as an attorney, who did he report to, as


                                                                 504






           1   Mr. Jackson's attorney?

           2           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; foundation.

           3           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  If you know; if you've

           4   been told.

           5           THE COURT:  Just a moment.  I'm not quite

           6   sure what the question was.

           7           I'll sustain the objection.

           8       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  You mentioned that the

           9   power of attorney at some point was revoked?

          10       A.  Yes.

          11       Q.  You were I believe referring to the power of

          12   attorney for Mr. Konitzer?

          13       A.  Yes.

          14       Q.  Do you know when that was?

          15       A.  In mid March of 2003.  I believe it was

          16   sometime around the 12th of March.

          17       Q.  Do you know if that terminated Mr. Konitzer

          18   as an employee or from working for Mr. Jackson?

          19           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; foundation.

          20           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Your Honor, she was asked

          21   a portion of statements.

          22           THE COURT:  That's true.

          23           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  This is the full

          24   statement.

          25           THE COURT:  You're correct.  I understand

          26   that.  Just let me --

          27           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Thank you.

          28           THE COURT:  All right.  The foundation


                                                                 505






           1   objection is sustained.  But do you want the

           2   question read back so you know what I'm ruling on?

           3           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Sure.  Thank you.

           4           (Record read.)

           5           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  All right.  I'll rephrase

           6   the question.

           7       Q.  Did you learn from anybody that Mr. Konitzer

           8   was continuing to work for Mr. Jackson after the

           9   power of attorney was revoked?

          10           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection; foundation.

          11           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  It's establishing the

          12   foundation.  It's a yes or no question.

          13           THE COURT:  Well, it calls for hearsay, too.

          14   It's a little more complicated than that.

          15           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Well, I can limit it some

          16   more.

          17           THE COURT:  Okay.

          18       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  When you learned

          19   that -- well, let me back up.  When did you learn

          20   that the power of attorney was revoked?

          21       A.  Around the 12th of March.

          22       Q.  From?

          23       A.  David LeGrand.

          24       Q.  Okay.  And do you know whether or not that

          25   power of attorney, when it was revoked, terminated

          26   Mr. Konitzer's employment by Mr. Jackson --

          27           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.

          28       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  -- based upon these


                                                                 506






           1   conversations with Mr. LeGrand?

           2           MR. MESEREAU:  Foundation and hearsay.

           3           THE COURT:  All right.  I'm going to let you

           4   answer that question yes or no.  The question is

           5   just whether or not you know, not what the result

           6   was.

           7           THE WITNESS:  Yes, I know.

           8           THE COURT:  Then the rest of the foundation

           9   would be how does she know that, without telling us

          10   the answer.

          11       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Okay.  How do you know

          12   the answer to that question?

          13       A.  Mr. LeGrand told me.

          14       Q.  And what did Mr. LeGrand tell you?

          15       A.  He told me that the power of attorney had

          16   been terminated; that Ronald didn't have any more

          17   control over Michael's finances, but that he was

          18   still going to continue to do business with him.

          19       Q.  When you went and spoke with Jermaine

          20   Jackson, can you tell me how that meeting came

          21   together?

          22       A.  I had been speaking with Rita Cosby from

          23   FOX.  She suggested that I might want to call

          24   Jermaine Jackson because he was very concerned about

          25   his brother.  She gave Mr. Jackson my telephone

          26   number.

          27           He called me.  We spoke.  He asked if I'd be

          28   willing to come and meet with him.  And I told him


                                                                 507






           1   yes, I would.  And I went.

           2       Q.  And you expressed concern about some of the

           3   team members to Mr. Jermaine Jackson?

           4       A.  Yes, I did.

           5       Q.  Did you express any other concerns about Mr.

           6   Jackson to Jermaine at that time?

           7       A.  Yes, I did.

           8       Q.  What did you tell him?

           9       A.  I expressed concern about his --

          10           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.  Relevance; 352;

          11   foundation.

          12           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  The full conversation.

          13           THE COURT:  Overruled.

          14           THE WITNESS:  I expressed concern about Mr.

          15   Jackson's financial situation.

          16       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  In what respect?

          17       A.  Um --

          18           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection, Your Honor.  The

          19   Court's ruling.

          20           THE COURT:  Sustained.

          21       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Did Mr. Jermaine

          22   Jackson indicate whether or not he was close to his

          23   brother during this conversation?

          24       A.  I don't think he ever said he was close to

          25   his brother, but he didn't say he was distant

          26   either.  He indicated great concern about his

          27   brother.

          28       Q.  Did he indicate whether or not he had


                                                                 508






           1   communications with his brother?

           2       A.  Yes, he did.

           3       Q.  You also mentioned that Mr. Konitzer and Mr.

           4   Weizner had a history of bad business decisions.

           5       A.  Yes.

           6       Q.  What did you base that on?

           7       A.  Information from David and information that

           8   I'd read in the press.

           9       Q.  Okay.  And as far as these bad business

          10   deals that you had read about in the press, can you

          11   give me an approximate time frame as to when these

          12   things were published?

          13       A.  No.  I'm sorry, I can't.  They were -- some

          14   of them were before my employment with Mr.

          15   Jackson --

          16       Q.  Okay.

          17       A.  -- and some of them after.

          18       Q.  It was published in the press, these bad

          19   business dealings?

          20       A.  Yes.

          21       Q.  Did you, in your dealings with Mr. Schaffel,

          22   ever receive any information from him, direct

          23   information from him, that he intended to hurt

          24   Michael Jackson?

          25       A.  Never.

          26       Q.  What about with Mr. Konitzer?

          27       A.  No.

          28       Q.  Mr. Backerman?


                                                                 509






           1       A.  No.

           2       Q.  Mr. Geragos?

           3       A.  No.

           4       Q.  Or Mr. LeGrand?

           5       A.  No.

           6       Q.  Did you ever have any information that they

           7   intended him any malice, this group of people?

           8   Well, that's compound.

           9           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.

          10           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  I'll strike that.

          11       Q.  Your assessment that they were hurting

          12   Michael Jackson, is that based on your professional

          13   experience in the public relations field as far as

          14   what was going on, or based on something else?

          15       A.  It was based on what I saw in the public

          16   relations side, the lack of action.

          17       Q.  You felt that the hunker-down approach was

          18   all wrong here?

          19       A.  Yes, I did.

          20           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Your Honor, there's two

          21   areas that I feel are relevant at this point

          22   regarding Mr. Schaffel and Mr. Malnik concerning the

          23   cross-examination.  However, I don't want to go into

          24   these areas without the Court's permission.

          25           THE COURT:  All right.  Counsel want to

          26   approach?

          27           (To the jury)  That means you can talk.  Not

          28   only that, you have to talk.


                                                                 510






           1           (Discussion held off the record at sidebar.)

           2           THE COURT:  All right.  Thank you for

           3   talking.

           4           Counsel, proceed.

           5           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Thank you.

           6       Q.  Ms. Kite, with respect to the public

           7   relations problems associated with Mr. Jackson that

           8   you've identified, the fires specifically - and I'm

           9   talking only about issues that had made their way

          10   into the media - was there any negative PR

          11   associated with Mr. Jackson specifically regarding

          12   Marc Schaffel?

          13       A.  Yes, there was.

          14       Q.  What was it?

          15           MR. MESEREAU:  Objection.

          16           THE COURT:  Overruled.

          17       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  You may answer the

          18   question.

          19           MR. MESEREAU:  Your Honor, the basis is

          20   hearsay; 352.

          21           THE COURT:  The hearsay objection's

          22   overruled.  The 352, again, if you're talking about

          23   undue use of time, it's overruled.

          24           This is more evidence, though, it's more

          25   evidence that isn't being offered for the truth of

          26   the matter asserted.  The witness has testified that

          27   she was trying to help put out fires - for lack of a

          28   better word, I'll use that word - concerning Mr.


                                                                 511






           1   Jackson, and then there was some cross-examination.

           2   And I've now agreed to let the attorney cover two

           3   more areas that she might -- or she'll testify.

           4   We'll see what she testifies to about those things.

           5           MR. MESEREAU:  We object on foundation also,

           6   Your Honor.

           7           THE COURT:  Huh?

           8           MR. MESEREAU:  We object on foundation also.

           9           THE COURT:  All right.  Go ahead.

          10       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  So I think you

          11   previously testified you researched the Internet,

          12   you researched the news services, television, et

          13   cetera, correct?

          14       A.  Yes.

          15       Q.  Based on that, what specific problem did you

          16   identify involving Mr. Jackson's association with

          17   Marc Schaffel?

          18           MR. MESEREAU:  Vague as to time, Your Honor.

          19           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  I'll be specific.

          20       Q.  As to during this month of February in 2003.

          21       A.  David told me, and I discovered, that Mr.

          22   Schaffel -- am I allowed to say?

          23           THE COURT:  Yes.

          24       Q.  BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Let's focus

          25   specifically on what came out in the media during

          26   that month.

          27       A.  What came out in the media during that month

          28   was that Mr. Schaffel was a gay pornography


                                                                 512






           1   producer.

           2       Q.  All right.  And let's move on to the -- and

           3   did you perceive that as a negative public relations

           4   association?

           5       A.  With respect to Mr. Jackson, yes,

           6   absolutely.

           7       Q.  Let's move on to Mr. Malnik.  Was there any

           8   negative -- same question.  Based upon all your

           9   review of the different news services, was there

          10   ever any negative public relations issues presented

          11   in the media by virtue of Mr. Jackson's association

          12   with Al Malnik?

          13       A.  Yes, there was.

          14       Q.  And what was that?

          15       A.  There were --

          16       Q.  Speaking about the month of February 2003

          17   again.

          18       A.  There was articles about Mr. Jackson's

          19   association with Mr. Malnik as he was reputed to be

          20   a known mobster.

          21           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  All right.  Thank you.  I

          22   have no further questions.

          23           MR. MESEREAU:  Yes, sir.

          24           THE COURT:  Any cross?

          25

          26                    RECROSS-EXAMINATION

          27  BY MR. MESEREAU:

          28       Q.  Ms. Kite, you have no knowledge whatsoever


                                                                 513






           1   that Mr. Jackson has ever been involved in anything

           2   related to gay pornography production?

           3       A.  No, sir, I don't.

           4       Q.  And you have no information of Mr. Jackson

           5   himself ever being involved in mobster-type

           6   activities?

           7       A.  No, sir, I don't.

           8       Q.  In fact, you were repeatedly complaining,

           9   "You've got to get these people away from Mr.

          10   Jackson"?

          11       A.  Absolutely, I was.

          12       Q.  And you complained they were exploiting him,

          13   correct?

          14           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Objection.  Vauge as to

          15   who "they" are.  Argumentative as to the word

          16   "exploiting."

          17           THE COURT:  Overruled.  You may answer.

          18           THE WITNESS:  Can you read it back?  I'm

          19   sorry.

          20           THE COURT:  Yes.

          21           (Record read.)

          22           THE COURT:  I think the answer came in

          23   before the objection, but I overruled the objection.

          24       Q.  BY MR. MESEREAU:  And you went to Mr.

          25   Jackson's mother's home, and you met with Jermaine

          26   and his mother to tell them that these people were

          27   taking advantage of Mr. Jackson, and Mr. Jackson

          28   appears to be nowhere to be seen, right?


                                                                 514






           1       A.  I went to tell them that I was concerned

           2   about the association between these people and Mr.

           3   Jackson, yes, I did.

           4       Q.  And you never saw these people with Mr.

           5   Jackson, did you?

           6       A.  No, sir, I did not.

           7           MR. MESEREAU:  Thank you.  No further

           8   questions.

           9           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  Nothing further.

          10           THE COURT:  Thank you.  You may step down.

          11           Is this witness excused?

          12           MR. MESEREAU:  Yes, Your Honor.

          13           THE COURT:  You're excused.

          14           Call your next witness.

          15           MR. SNEDDON:  Do you want to keep going,

          16   Your Honor?

          17           THE COURT:  What time --

          18           MR. MESEREAU:  Your Honor, can we make it

          19   subject to re-call?

          20           THE COURT:  Excuse me?

          21           MR. MESEREAU:  We would like to make the

          22   witness subject to re-call.

          23           THE COURT:  All right.  You're not

          24   permanently excused.  You may leave, but you may be

          25   recalled.  Is that all right?

          26           THE WITNESS:  Okay.

          27           MR. SNEDDON:  Judge, could we approach for

          28   just five, ten seconds?


                                                                 515






           1           THE COURT:  All right.

           2           MR. SNEDDON:  I promise it won't be longer

           3   than that.

           4           (Off-the-record discussion held at sidebar.)

           5           MR. SNEDDON:  Call Al Lafferty, Your Honor.

           6           THE COURT:  Come forward.  When you get to

           7   the witness stand, remain standing.  Raise your

           8   right hand.  Face the clerk.

           9           THE CLERK:  Please raise your right hand.

          10

          11                    ALBERT LAFFERTY

          12       Having been sworn, testified as follows:

          13

          14           THE WITNESS:  I do.

          15           THE CLERK:  Please be seated.  State and

          16   spell your name for the record.

          17           THE WITNESS:  Albert Lafferty.  A-l-b-e-r-t,

          18   L-a-f-f-e-r-t-y.

          19           THE CLERK:  Thank you.

          20

          21                         DIRECT EXAMINATION

          22  BY MR. SNEDDON:

          23       Q.  Good afternoon.  Good afternoon, Mr.

          24   Lafferty.

          25       A.  Good afternoon.

          26       Q.  How are you employed?

          27       A.  I'm employed by the Santa Barbara County

          28   Sheriff's Office.


                                                                 516






           1       Q.  How long have you been a deputy sheriff?

           2       A.  18 years.

           3       Q.  And directing your attention back to

           4   November of 2003, okay?

           5       A.  Yes.

           6       Q.  What were your duties and assignments at

           7   that time?

           8       A.  At that time I was assigned to the forensics

           9   investigation unit, the criminal investigation

          10   division.

          11       Q.  Could you just take a moment and explain to

          12   the ladies and gentlemen of the jury what that job

          13   with the forensics unit involved?

          14       A.  It was our job to respond to crime scenes,

          15   document those scenes, search for evidence, collect

          16   and preserve the evidence, and process any evidence

          17   which was within our capabilities.

          18       Q.  With regard to November 18th of 2003, did

          19   you participate on the execution of a search warrant

          20   on Mr. Jackson's ranch at Neverland Valley Ranch?

          21       A.  Yes, I did.

          22       Q.  And what particular duty assignments were

          23   you assigned on that day?

          24       A.  I was assigned to shoot video and

          25   photographs of the main residence.

          26       Q.  Now, was there some significance attached to

          27   the manner in which you shot your footage in

          28   relationship to the chronology of the events that


                                                                 517






           1   day?

           2       A.  Yes.

           3       Q.  Would you explain that to the ladies and

           4   gentlemen of the jury?

           5       A.  I was initially tasked with photographing

           6   the interior of the main residence before any search

           7   had been conducted.

           8       Q.  And the purpose for that?

           9       A.  To document the scene as it was before

          10   anything had been disturbed by any of the searching

          11   members.

          12       Q.  Now, did you also participate in the

          13   production -- or did you also videotape the premises

          14   that day?

          15       A.  That was my purpose, yes, that was to

          16   videotape.

          17       Q.  So you did video and not still photography?

          18       A.  I did several still photos, but my primary

          19   assignment was for video.

          20       Q.  And when you did video, were you assigned to

          21   a particular location at the ranch premises?

          22       A.  Yes, I was.

          23       Q.  Would you tell the ladies and gentlemen of

          24   the jury where you were assigned?

          25       A.  It was the main residence located on the

          26   ranch.

          27       Q.  Now, were you also assigned responsibility

          28   subsequent to that time to take some aerial


                                                                 518






           1   photographs?

           2       A.  Yes, I was.

           3       Q.  And what specifically was your assignment?

           4       A.  To document the ranch property, overall

           5   views and specific views of the buildings located on

           6   the ranch.

           7       Q.  And do you recall when you did that?

           8       A.  That was on March 2nd of 2004.

           9       Q.  And in that connection, were you also

          10   assigned to do some research on just some basic

          11   information on the location of the ranch?

          12       A.  Yes.

          13       Q.  And the purpose of that?

          14       A.  To be able to identify in the photographs

          15   which buildings they were.

          16       Q.  Now, were you also -- can you tell us

          17   whether or not you were involved in the preparation

          18   of an exhibit which was used for purposes of court

          19   demonstration, actual map location of the

          20   premises --

          21       A.  Yes.

          22       Q.  -- and the ranch itself --

          23       A.  Yes, I was.

          24       Q.  -- in relation to other places in Santa

          25   Barbara County?

          26       A.  Yes.

          27       Q.  Could you describe to the ladies and

          28   gentlemen of the jury what you did in that


                                                                 519






           1   connection?

           2       A.  In that connection what I did was use the

           3   Microsoft Streets and Map Program, which our unit

           4   had at the time, to display a map showing the

           5   surrounding area of Santa Ynez Valley and the

           6   location of the ranch.

           7           MR. SNEDDON:  Your Honor, at this time I've

           8   had four -- I'm sorry, Exhibits 4 through 12 marked

           9   for identification purposes.  I'm going to show them

          10   to counsel for their examination.  I believe they

          11   have a copy of them already, but....

          12           Your Honor, I intend to lay the foundation

          13   and ask for their admission.  And I want to make

          14   sure the procedure's okay with the Court ahead of

          15   time and then display what I have here on the

          16   board --

          17           THE COURT:  That's --

          18           MR. SNEDDON: -- as we go through them.

          19           THE COURT:  That's how I would like to do

          20   that.

          21           MR. SANGER:  Your Honor, I have no objection

          22   if it will save time, he can put them on the board

          23   and show the witness at the same time, if that's all

          24   right with the Court.

          25           THE COURT:  Yes, it is.  If there's no

          26   objection, that would save time.

          27           MR. SNEDDON:  Can we move these admitted

          28   into evidence at this time, then, Your Honor?


                                                                 520






           1           MR. SANGER:  In this case, that's fine, Your

           2   Honor.  We'll do it that way.

           3           THE COURT:  In this case, they're admitted.

           4           MR. SNEDDON:  In this case, I'll accept it.

           5       Q.  All right.  Deputy Lafferty, let me just

           6   hand you those.  And let's start with the first

           7   exhibit.  Could you indicate what People's Exhibit

           8   No. 4 is?

           9           THE COURT:  See, what he was suggesting, he

          10   agreed they come into evidence, so you could just

          11   put them right on the --

          12           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  We have it set up with the

          13   computer, Your Honor.

          14           THE COURT:  You do.

          15           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  If you could activate the

          16   PC button.

          17           THE COURT:  The PC button?  Okay.

          18           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  It takes a few minutes for

          19   the projector to warm up.

          20           THE COURT:  It's on, isn't it?

          21           MR. AUCHINCLOSS:  It's coming.

          22           MR. SNEDDON:  Maybe we could dim the lights.

          23           THE BAILIFF:  Do you want all of them

          24   dimmed?

          25       Q.  BY MR. SNEDDON:  All right.  Deputy

          26   Lafferty, could you explain to the ladies and

          27   gentlemen of the jury what People's Exhibit No. 4

          28   is?


                                                                 521






           1       A.  This is the map I made using the Microsoft

           2   Streets and Maps showing the Santa Ynez Valley area,

           3   community, and the ranch location.

           4           MR. SNEDDON:  Your Honor, may I approach the

           5   witness?

           6           THE COURT:  Yes.

           7           MR. SNEDDON:  Thank you.

           8       Q.  All right.  I've handed you a little laser

           9   pen to help with some of the directions here.

          10           Could you locate, for instance, the town of

          11   Solvang on there for us?

          12       A.  The City of Solvang is located right here in

          13   the lower center portion of the map.

          14       Q.  All right.  And Los Olivos?

          15       A.  Los Olivos is directly north of that.  Right

          16   in this area.

          17       Q.  Right under the word "California"?

          18       A.  That's correct.

          19       Q.  Now, I notice that towards the top of the

          20   exhibit, People's No. 4, and in the middle toward

          21   the top is a little red arrow; is that correct?

          22       A.  Yes.

          23       Q.  Could you indicate to the ladies and

          24   gentlemen of the jury what that red arrow -- and

          25   could you find it with the laser?  There you go.

          26       A.  This right here?

          27       Q.  Yes.  What is that?

          28       A.  That's a small push pin used to identify the


                                                                 522






           1   entrance location of the ranch.

           2       Q.  All right.  Let's move to the next exhibit,

           3   People's 5, if we could.

           4           With regard to People's 5, it's in evidence,

           5   could you tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury

           6   what that is?

           7       A.  This is a closer-in view of the area, with

           8   the town of Los Olivos being located in the center

           9   lower portion of the picture.  The yellow line

          10   highlights Figueroa Mountain Road as it proceeds

          11   north from the town of Los Olivos and ends again at

          12   a red push pin indicating the ranch entrance.

          13       Q.  All right.  Now, let's go to the next

          14   exhibit, People's No. 5 -- or No. 6.

          15           Could you explain to the ladies and

          16   gentlemen of the jury what People's No. 6 is?

          17       A.  This is an overall aerial photograph showing

          18   the ranch property.

          19       Q.  Now, with regard to the information that's

          20   been placed on this exhibit, the writing that's on

          21   there in yellow, did you do that?

          22       A.  Yes, I did.

          23       Q.  And from what sources of information did you

          24   put those letters and designations on there?

          25       A.  That was information provided by Sergeant

          26   Robel and yourself.

          27       Q.  You've been to the ranch yourself, though,

          28   have you not?


                                                                 523






           1       A.  Yes, I have.

           2       Q.  So you recognize the areas depicted up

           3   there, correct?

           4       A.  Yeah, that's correct.

           5       Q.  Now, with regard to this particular exhibit,

           6   People's No. 6, there's an arrow that points back

           7   towards Los Olivos?

           8       A.  Yes.

           9       Q.  And the road just to the bottom on the

          10   diagram, that's marked Figueroa Mountain Road?

          11       A.  That's correct.

          12       Q.  Do you know approximately what the distance

          13   is from the gate where it says "ranch entrance"

          14   to -- back to, say, where 154 -- Highway 154 is?

          15       A.  It's just over five miles.

          16       Q.  Could we go to People's No. 7?

          17           Now, People's No. 7 is another aerial

          18   photograph that you took?

          19       A.  Yes, it is.

          20       Q.  And with regard to the designation of the --

          21   of the areas of buildings located on this exhibit,

          22   did you put those on there?

          23       A.  Yes, I did.

          24       Q.  Is that based on your personal information

          25   and observations?

          26       A.  Yes, it is.

          27       Q.  While you were at the ranch?

          28       A.  That's correct.


                                                                 524






           1       Q.  All right.  Let's go to the next number, if

           2   we could, which I believe is 8?

           3       A.  That's correct.

           4       Q.  All right.  And People's No. 8 is another

           5   aerial you took, correct?

           6       A.  That's correct.

           7       Q.  And with regard to the information placed on

           8   there, did you place that information on there?

           9       A.  Yes, I did.

          10       Q.  And is that information you gathered while

          11   you were personally at the ranch on the occasion

          12   that you were there?

          13       A.  Yes.

          14       Q.  Now, I notice on this particular photograph,

          15   this particular exhibit, that there's a road that

          16   runs in the upper top of the photograph, about in

          17   the middle.  Do you see that?

          18       A.  This road here?

          19       Q.  Yes, sir.  Do you know where that road goes

          20   to?

          21       A.  That was the road leading from the main gate

          22   entrance on Figueroa Mountain Road that we came in

          23   on.

          24       Q.  So that's the road that takes you from the

          25   main gate to the house?

          26       A.  Yes.

          27       Q.  And to the areas depicted on this

          28   photograph?


                                                                 525






           1       A.  Yes.

           2       Q.  All right.  Why don't we go to the next

           3   exhibit, then.  This is No. 9?

           4       A.  That's correct.

           5       Q.  And with regard to People's No. 9, did you

           6   place the designations on these particular areas?

           7       A.  Yes, I did.

           8       Q.  And this is another aerial that you took?

           9       A.  Yes.

          10       Q.  Have you ever been in the theater itself?

          11       A.  No, I have not.

          12       Q.  All right.  Let's go to the next exhibit,

          13   which would be People's No. 10.  And 10 is just a

          14   wider view of 9 but has more information; is that

          15   correct?

          16       A.  Yes, slightly different angle.

          17       Q.  And it just shows the theater and the

          18   amusement park?

          19       A.  Yes.

          20       Q.  All right.  Let's go to People's No. 11.

          21           People's No. 11 is another aerial that you

          22   took; is that correct?

          23       A.  It is correct.

          24       Q.  And the designation that's on there is the

          25   zoo?

          26       A.  Correct.

          27       Q.  That's the zoo area, as you know it to be?

          28       A.  Yes.


                                                                 526






           1       Q.  Or at the time you took these photographs?

           2       A.  Yes.

           3       Q.  All right.  I believe there's one last

           4   photograph there, Deputy.  What is that?

           5       A.  This is an aerial view of the train station

           6   area.

           7       Q.  And that's the -- okay.  And that's

           8   another -- in this particular photograph, there is a

           9   road that runs directly into the train station where

          10   the clock is and goes to the bottom of the

          11   photograph.

          12       A.  Yes.

          13       Q.  Do you know where that road leads to?

          14       A.  That's the road that leads past the main

          15   residence.

          16       Q.  Okay.  Thank you.

          17           Your Honor, I do have more questions for

          18   this witness, but it will take considerably more

          19   than the two minutes we have left.

          20           THE COURT:  All right.  We'll recess for the

          21   afternoon.

          22           Court's in recess.

          23           (The proceedings adjourned at 2:30 p.m.)

          24                             --o0o--

          25

          26

          27

          28


                                                                 527






           1                    REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE

           2

           3

           4   THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE     )

           5   OF CALIFORNIA,              )

           6                Plaintiff,     )

           7           -vs-               )   No. 1133603

           8   MICHAEL JOE JACKSON,       )

           9               Defendant.     )

          10

          11

          12           I, MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR,

          13   CSR #3304, Official Court Reporter, do hereby

          14   certify:

          15           That the foregoing pages 341 through 527

          16   contain a true and correct transcript of the

          17   proceedings had in the within and above-entitled

          18   matter as by me taken down in shorthand writing at

          19   said proceedings on March 2, 2005, and thereafter

          20   reduced to typewriting by computer-aided

          21   transcription under my direction.

          22              DATED: Santa Maria, California,

          23   March 2, 2005.

          24

          25

          26

          27           MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR, CSR #3304

          28


                                                                 528
